PLAN overseas deployment and excercises a list

Rutim said:

I just meant that we shouldn't draw any conclusions from the fact that they sailed through the Sunda Strait as I'm sure PLAN planners had that in mind for 10 year and didn't mind mutual relations for a second talking about that.

My point is that by the way you put it PRC and Japan are in all time high close relations.

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My point Rutim is that the use of Indonesian Territorial Waters are a sign of very good relations being elevated to the Strategic Level by the two biggest emerging nations of the Asia Pacific Region and that this is significant.
It follows on progress made over previous years and has hit a current high marked by President Ji addressing the Indonesian parliament in October.





The notion that China would do blatantly transgress Indonesian territorial waters and throw those gains away is farcical.

By contrast relations with Australia are in the deep freeze following the revelations from Edward Snowden regarding Australian spying activities against the Indonesian President Yudohono, his family and inner political circle.
Recent headlines say it all.









A very simple selection from the last couple of months and the back ground against which the Indonesian Government give the PLAN permission to transit its territorial waters.

I can understand why some would wish to frame the transit through the Indonesian waters in the same way as is framed the Chinese prosecution of its territorial claims, but to do so is to depart from reality in a very fundamental way.

SampanViking said:

My point Rutim is that the use of Indonesian Territorial Waters are a sign of very good relations being elevated to the Strategic Level by the two biggest emerging nations of the Asia Pacific Region and that this is significant.

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Don't link me to Xi's letter or Xinhua news...

1965 happened for real and wasn't so welcomed in China.

'A very simple selection' lol

I'd like you to ask - if any of other country navy applied for a transition through Sunda Strait - would Indonesians decline it? And on what motivations?

And - OMG! USS George Washington in the same place! Indonesia muuuuust be so pro-US!!! And oh, wow... Australian Navy vessels assisted as well!

It would be a balancing act for Indonesian government in future, at least we now know the Chinese Navy is capable of operating within their waters. They can use it to counter balance other maritime forces and I agree with Rutim how they should use such relationship to their benefit is speculation at best.

Rutim said:

Don't link me to Xi's letter or Xinhua news...

1965 happened for real and wasn't so welcomed in China.

'A very simple selection' lol

I'd like you to ask - if any of other country navy applied for a transition through Sunda Strait - would Indonesians decline it? And on what motivations?

And - OMG! USS George Washington in the same place! Indonesia muuuuust be so pro-US!!! And oh, wow... Australian Navy vessels assisted as well!

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While your argument is good, you seriously need to change your tone. Mocking another member, especially a mod, is never a good idea on sinodefence and can be interpreted as trolling. SampanViking responded politely to your rude response, and I like you to do the same in the future.

Rutim said:

Don't link me to Xi's letter or Xinhua news...

1965 happened for real and wasn't so welcomed in China.

'A very simple selection' lol

I'd like you to ask - if any of other country navy applied for a transition through Sunda Strait - would Indonesians decline it? And on what motivations?

And - OMG! USS George Washington in the same place! Indonesia muuuuust be so pro-US!!! And oh, wow... Australian Navy vessels assisted as well!

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You will be well advised to take the advice from Siegecrossbow on board. I fail to see how you believe that taking your current tone is going to achieve anything other than a second holiday from SDF.

I fail to see the relevance of events of 50 years ago to the security needs of the here and now and its inclusion does little to dispel the suspicion of trolling that Siegecrossbow raises. I also question why someone sincere in the opinions you claim, would want to raise old history in the region for their arguments!

Otherwise your argument seems to have moved from an implied "Arrogant Chinese Incursion of Indonesian Territorial waters" to "They simply enjoy the same rights as those enjoyed by the USN". If you wish to give equity to both navies, that is fine by me.

I did search to see if there were any records of an Indonesian Demarche on the subject of the transit, but could only find items and articles relating to Australia's recent incursion last month. Of which this is a good example



There is no shortage of coverage of the current difficulties between Australia and Indonesia and my "simple selection" was a random selection of articles all produced in the last couple of months. There were many many more, all in the same vane to choose from.

There was incidentally, no record of any complaint from Jakarta to Beijing over the PLAN transit, which; given the loud complaint against Australia, is pretty conclusive that the transit was agreed in advance.

I also sought to illustrate the clear trajectory of relations between Indonesia and its two most powerful neighbours. I doubt anyone can seriously question what is shown. Xi addresses the Indonesian parliament, while Yudohono will not even take Abbot's phone calls.

I realise that the growing friendship between the two Asia Pacific giants is painful to those who wish to believe that China is universally loathed and sought to be contained by all other regional nations. This very simple exercise by the PLAN should be sufficient to show such a view as the wishful thinking that it is.

"In what may be perceived as a further snub to Australia, the Indonesian Military (TNI) has said its decision to allow Chinese naval vessels to pass through waters in Indonesia’s southern territory near Australia was in the nation’s best interest. .."

Rutim said:

I just meant that we shouldn't draw any conclusions from the fact that they sailed through the Sunda Strait as I'm sure PLAN planners had that in mind for 10 year and didn't mind mutual relations for a second talking about that.

My point is that by the way you put it PRC and Japan are in all time high close relations.

Click to expand...

port_08 said:

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"In what may be perceived as a further snub to Australia, the Indonesian Military (TNI) has said its decision to allow Chinese naval vessels to pass through waters in Indonesia’s southern territory near Australia was in the nation’s best interest. .."

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The Indonesia Military itself has come out and said that they want to forge a closer relationship with China. So much for some people's wishful thinking that China-Indonesia relations took a hit.

Keep up the great job, Sampan!

port_08 said:

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"In what may be perceived as a further snub to Australia, the Indonesian Military (TNI) has said its decision to allow Chinese naval vessels to pass through waters in Indonesia’s southern territory near Australia was in the nation’s best interest. .."

Click to expand...

The Jakarta Post article apparently conflates two episodes: The training voyage we considered above and the return of a flotilla from the Gulf of Aden. Also it talks of submarines which I think means either one or both flotillas contained one or two submarines. The journalist is presumably unaware of what he is writing about. Do we have a more competent source?

delft said:

The Jakarta Post article apparently conflates two episodes: The training voyage we considered above and the return of a flotilla from the Gulf of Aden. Also it talks of submarines which I think means either one or both flotillas contained one or two submarines. The journalist is presumably unaware of what he is writing about. Do we have a more competent source?

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''China's legitimate national interests are still undermined by the US,'' he says. ''America has interfered in mainland China's unification with Taiwan, and its region-based alliances have served its purpose of military intervention. Australia is on the US strategic chessboard for such purpose … Australia shall not expect to be entitled to follow the US to threaten China without hurting itself...''

It seems there are expectation more and more of Chinese navy will train around areas in Australia vicinity with such passage, Australia need to increase their defense budget and plan for any eventuality.



Many Indonesians share the feelings of Canberra's most persistent antagonist, the former Malaysian prime minister Mahathir Mohamad. "Australia has to choose whether it's an Asian country or a western country," he told the newspaper the Australian in November 2002. "If you take the position of being a deputy sheriff to America, you cannot very well be accepted by the countries of this region..."


Australia as one of US trusted allies need really to take note of such and possible of an Indonesia and China 'friendliness' build up...

China Sending Frigate 570 Huangshan to Mediterranean Succeeding 546 Yancheng

刚央视得到的消息海军黄山舰将启程接替地中海的盐城舰。明天从南海舰队基地启程

Auto Translation:

From CCTV News: Huangshan Navy ship will depart for the Mediterranean succeed Yancheng ship. Tomorrow depart from the South Sea Fleet base. I wish all the best!
(From CCTV News)