PLAN Naval Helicopter & ASW Capability II

Gloire_bb said:

50% longer,twice heavier- Z-15's almost full-sized heavy helicopter.
Not everything what "fits" can actually be safely used in foul weather from such platform.

Hard to be sure, but lets see actual operation from such a small vessel first.

p.s. Ka-28 as ASW helicopter is simply old. While it's indeed by far the smallest(excluding height) heavy ASW helicopter in termps of footprint, to be relevant in this role upgraded ones shall be used(like recent Ka-27M). And even if capable to land - you'll still have to somehow feed it.

How much aviation fuel type 56 can carry?

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AC 352 ha been crash tested and good for sea stage 6 which is heavy storm condition. It s cousin EC 175 mainly sold to service offshore platform which is way out in the sea and experience brutal sea condition

It is slightly larger than Z9 but no more than 10 % Here is the profile comparison between Z9 and AC 352 aka Z15


I did measure type 56 deck length using pixel measurement it come to 100 The Z 9 is around 90

There is no Z9 on your profile comparison. ;-)
Z-20 is indeed only slightly larger than z-15, but z-15 and z-9 belong to very different classes.

Ability of maritime hrlicopter to operate from deck requires much more than pure geometrical capability. Your average pilot is expected to routinely operate it, preferably in high seas.

I don't want to tell it's impossible, though.

Gloire_bb said:

There is no Z9 on your profile comparison. ;-)
Z-20 is indeed only slightly larger than z-15, but z-15 and z-9 belong to very different classes.

Ability of maritime hrlicopter to operate from deck requires much more than pure geometrical capability. Your average pilot is expected to routinely operate it, preferably in high seas.

I don't want to tell it's impossible, though.

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Z9 profile is in the black and Z15 in purple.Z20 is at least 25% bigger. It won't fit in type 56 landing spot. And you think PLAN never operate in rough weather ? What are they doing all this years I thought I saw on youtube the close call I try to find it. Here it is

Look at your picture. Even with all metrics wrong I refuse to believe you'll mistake helicopter with fenestron and one with tail rotor.

Gloire_bb said:

Look at your picture. Even with all metrics wrong I refuse to believe you'll mistake helicopter with fenestron and one with tail rotor.

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It is schematic representation and not true detail picture

Hendrik_2000 said:

It is schematic representation and not true detail picture

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Nope, it's well made, dimensions match both H175(z-15) ahd s-70 perfectly.
Z-9, on the other hand, has full length below 14m, with 11.94m main rotor. And is much smaller(and +/- twice lighter) than both.

Gloire_bb said:

Nope, it's well made, dimensions match both H175(z-15) ahd s-70 perfectly.
Z-9, on the other hand, has full length below 14m, with 11.94m main rotor. And is much smaller(and +/- twice lighter) than both.

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I don't know this is from Wiki Clearly show the overall length of S70 is 19.7 m. The drawing look like HUey but the overall length of Huey is 17m
The data for Z9 say length 12.4 m but not sure if it include the rotor
Aerocopter AS565 on which the Z9D was based overall length is 14m exactly like the schematic

The 12 m refer to Z9A which was based on AS365N

Specifications (S-70i)
UH-60 orthographical image.svg

Data from Sikorsky[23]

General characteristics

Crew: two
Capacity: 14-17 seats/12 troops/6 stretchers
Payload: 4,072 kg (9,000 lb) externally slung
Length: 19.76 m (64 ft 10 in)
Rotor diameter: 53 ft 8 in (16.36 m)
Height: 5.33 m (17 ft 6 in)
Empty weight: 5347 kg (11,790 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 9,979 kg (22,000 lb)
Fuel, internal: 1,360 L
Auxiliary Fuel: 2x 700 L tanks internally, 1,705 L (450 US gal) tank on each inboard pylon and 872 L (230 US gal) tank on each outboard pylon, or 1,705 L (450 US gal) tank on each pylon
Powerplant: 2 × General Electric T700-GE-701D turboshaft, 1,409 kW (1,940 shp) at 0.462 Specific fuel consumption[24] each

Gloire_bb said:

Look at your picture. Even with all metrics wrong I refuse to believe you'll mistake helicopter with fenestron and one with tail rotor.

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He dream ... and Type 056 don' t have hangar !!! enormous poor forum !
yesterday 2 J-16 Rgts by year hahaha no comments ! and others like !

For qty of fuel aviation it is a specification enough difficult to find more easy to know the number of torpedoes in madazine by example in more 056 host only sometimes and rarely an helo just helipad.

FactsPlease said:

Anyone got idea, photo even better, that Ka- series can land on 056? My further thought is: just like PLAN is replacing all HHQ-7 with HHQ-10, what's the possibility Z-9 can be replaced, considering its size and short combat radius? I do read this article claiming even shorter than Chinese-ASROC. Concern is of course about logistics, which now do rise in PLAN strategy, and I think it's a right issue at right timing. I know OTOH it provides flexibility of 3~5 tones. But I don't see any main carrier-operating country using such level. Quick thought...

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You don't really want the Ka-series to land on the 056 or another other PLAN ship TBH. This helo is a dead end for the PLAN and additionally has forced the hangar design of all new PLAN ships to accommodate its unusual height (given its double rotor design) so that they can embark one if necessary. For Aegis-type ships like the 052C/D and the 055 it creates unnecessary problems with radar coverage towards the rear of the ship. IMO the future of PLAN ASW lies in a navalized Z-20.

Gloire_bb said:

Nope, it's well made, dimensions match both H175(z-15) ahd s-70 perfectly.
Z-9, on the other hand, has full length below 14m, with 11.94m main rotor. And is much smaller(and +/- twice lighter) than both.

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This is hilarious. That is obviously an S-70 in the background. You can look at that CG for like 2 seconds and realize what kind of helo that is.

Iron Man said:

You don't really want the Ka-series to land on the 056 or another other PLAN ship TBH. This helo is a dead end for the PLAN and additionally has forced the hangar design of all new PLAN ships to accommodate its unusual height (given its double rotor design) so that they can embark one if necessary. For Aegis-type ships like the 052C/D and the 055 it creates unnecessary problems with radar coverage towards the rear of the ship. IMO the future of PLAN ASW lies in a navalized Z-20.

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I have no comment on PLAN next gen ASW helo. Simply want to see the possibility Z-9 to be replaced. According to above discussions, it's still open what will fit 056 after Z-9. So far, while PLAN been decisive in retiring some old platforms before life cycle, eg 053H2G & 022, it also had been thrift in many equipments such as CIWs.