PLAN ASW Capability

D

Deleted member 13312

Guest
Where would you put them?

Ship design is all about choices and compromise. Going overboard with adding every weapon you can cram onto a ship is a compromised in itself. Just ask the Israelis.

056s are not meant as loan wolves, they are supposed to operate as part of a fleet.

In that context, any sub commander who attacks an 056s has just given away his position for the rest of the PLAN fleet to engage.

The PLAN would quite happily trade 1 or 2 056s for an enemy SSN or SSK, whereas no sub commander would be happy to make the reverse trade.

There is also the question of range and effectiveness.

The Type87 has a short effective range, and its effectiveness against subs is questionable, especially in deeper water. In modern warfare, their best use would be as hard kill countermeasures against incoming torpedos.

054As have Type 87s more to defend themselves and heavier ships from enemy torpedos than to hit enemy subs with. That is their main role as the middle layer of a PLAN fleets ASW screen.

The 056, as the other layer, would be more interested in killing the enemy subs.

Their primary defence against enemy torpedos would be their lowly status, and their own offensive weapons, in that any sub that launches a torpedo at an 056 would also itself be within range of the 056’s torpedos.

If they had spare deck space and displacement, sure, adding some Type 87s would be great, but if the choice is between having Type 87s or having to switch to a peashooter for a main gun, well that makes the 87 far less attractive for the reasons listed above.

Being part of a fleet does not preclude it from having weapons that makes it better suited for the purpose. And as you have so helpfully pointed out yourself, since the Type 56A primary function is ASW operations the Type 87s would be a good supplement as it can be use within the minimum radius of the 330mm torpedoes (modern torpedoes have restrictions on how what range they will be armed due to self-targeting fears). It can also be deployed much faster and instantaneously than torpedoes. And it gives little time for the enemy sub to react.
And since the Type 56A is not expected to operate beyond the first island chain, well within China's costal zones. The depth of the ocean is less of a concern, not to mention that water depth have little to no effect on the performance of hedgehog style depth charges to begin with.
Also the hedgehog style ASROC effectiveness has been well documented in the past as shown in here :
"Statistics show that in the Second World War out of 5,174 British depth charge attacks there were 85.5 kills: a ratio of 60.5 to 1. In comparison, the Hedgehog made 268 attacks for 47 kills: a ratio of 5.7 to 1"
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While it is true that submarine technology has improved over the years, so did ASROC tech as well.

In ASW where every second counts, and you have only a brief opportunity to sink a sub before it escapes. And that sudden contact with the enemy is a given and not all targets are certain. Every single ship is expected to pull its weight. This is not about cost trade offs or the lowness of stature or anything (which is fast becoming an hackneyed excuse for almost every single slip up the PLAN had committed). But rather some glaring oversight to a ship designed with a singular purpose.
If a Type 56A comes equipped with anti ship missiles even when it is not expected to face off against other enemy ships, then it makes even less sense for it to lack the most basic ASW equipment, even more so considering the fact that all of its predecessors came armed in such a nature before it.
The inclusion of the Type 87 launcher would not have caused the Type 56A to deviated from its original purpose, and if it is left out due to the lack of space for the hull then it still counts for a grievous oversight and flaw from the designer when they fail to take into account its main purpose when they can spare some thought to it's secondaries.
 
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Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
On the ASW capabilities of the PLAN, one thing that is somewhat perplexing is the complete lack of certain ASW weaponry on ships that really could use them.
I am talking about the Type 87 ASW/ hedgehog/RBU series style ASROC on the Type 56s. Given the role of the ship, one might have expected it to be equipped with a proven weapon system that can also double as a anti torpedo CIWS if need to. And its not like the system has been phased out considering that it is mounted on ironically larger ships like the Type 54A, ships that are not expected to be the first choice for sub hunting.
Lower cost production won't make much sense in this case to deprive the ships of a effective weapon system which cost less than a light weight torpedo. Seems like a rather huge oversight.
The Type 87 is hopelessly obsolete as an ASW weapon. It's only real use nowadays is as an anti-torpedo CIWS, with its anti-sub function being nothing more than a last ditch weapon if the 054A runs out of VL ASW missiles or torpedoes from its helos. Modern fast deep-diving subs are all but immune to pathetic pre-programmed depth charges with no ability to maneuver.

As for the 054A (and especially the "054A+"), it is most certainly the first and best choice for sub hunting, especially as part of CSGs. Which other class is a better choice? Type 056s? They can only stay in the littorals. Type 052C/Ds or Type 055s? While they could perform as good at ASW as 054As, they would be totally wasted in this role when a smaller ship like the 054A is just as easily up to the task.

056s are not meant as loan wolves, they are supposed to operate as part of a fleet.
Uhh, what?? Actually that's exactly what 056s are. Lone wolves. Their primary mission is patrol, which is done alone, or possibly in small groups; same as the ship classes they replaced. They do not operate routinely as part of a fleet, except possibly during wartime.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Not sure if this is typo but 3rd one launched or did he meant 2nd one? From Dafengcao
All right, the 3rd one launched already, 1st one in floating dock.

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Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
What kind of ship is that?

It is a ship dedicated to hunt submarine similar to tagos .A very important ship to strengthen China's ASW
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Mission[
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]

The mission of Impeccable is to directly support the Navy by using
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passive and active low frequency
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arrays to detect and track undersea threats.[
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]
 

Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
It is a ship dedicated to hunt submarine similar to tagos .A very important ship to strengthen China's ASW
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Mission[
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]

The mission of Impeccable is to directly support the Navy by using
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passive and active low frequency
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arrays to detect and track undersea threats.[
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]
Nope. This ship is much smaller than the Impeccable and is much more similar to the Victorious class.
 
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