This ship does not seem to have a CIWS or HHQ-10 launcher. If the ship has a universal VLS with 16 cells and can quad-pack (32 MRSAMs, 8 ASW missiles), this would be a potent little ship. In any case I'm not sure the 056/A needs an upgrade like this ship. If reports are correct that the PLAN wants 50-70 of the 056/A, what places does this ship have in the PLAN's ORBAT?
PLAN Future FFG design
- Thread starter Blitzo
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There are two ciws mounts on the model, amidships, but they seem to be using the export 730 variant (the type without own radar and EO)
As for the role of this ship... I think it could act as a handy task group "leader" for 056/As performing patrol and especially ASW missions near China's waters/littorals.
I imagine it is big enough accommodate a medium sized MFR AESA, and along with a VLS SAM, could provide medium range area air defence for an 056/A "SAG", and having two helicopter hangars means it has provides organic ASW helicopters for the 056/As ASW mission.
If 60-70 056/As end up being built I can see 15+ of these trimaran frigates/corvettes, where each trimaran can "command" and provide area air defence and ASW helicopters for a task group of four 056/As for a total of five ships operating in a formation. The greater endurance of the trimaran relative to standard 056/As also means the trimaran can stay out at sea (even if it is only near seas/littorals) for a longer period of time while 056/As can cycle in and out from their base to the area of operation.
Broadly speaking, such a role is similar to what I once considered 054As could eventually be sent to do for the Navy (acting as commad/air defence ship for 056/As), but I think 054As might be a bit overkill in some ways, and their size may make them more suitable for longer range missions in open ocean/blue water in the foreseeable future until a larger successor frigate enters service in large numbers.
Possibly, though if that's the case those positions seems to be a poor choice compared to where the rocket launchers are placed.
The role of task group leader seems unlikely unless such a role does not involve anti-air protection, especially since there is no evidence of an MFR on this model. In addition MRSAMs will be wholly insufficient to provide air cover for several ships performing ASW, since they will not be anywhere close to each other while dragging their sensor arrays; they would be spread out several dozen or even 100+ km apart. They may not even be part of any "ASW task force". The bow of the trimaran seems inadequate to load a LRSAM, so that possibility is out. I could see this ship paired with a single 056A for an air defense mission, but not as a commander for several of them, unless like I said this command role does not involve anti-air protection. Similarly the 054A is an unsuitable air defense ship for several 056As performing ASW.
I can see this ship as a replacement for the 056/A only if that ship is not planned to be built in as large a quantity as previously speculated. If that is the case then this trimaran is obviously an excellent replacement, especially as it could probably embark 2 helicopters. This ship is a 056A on steroids with a look perfectly suited to littoral ASW. The only thing that confuses me is the planned number of 056/As in light of this ship's revelation.
Other pictures floating around of the same model do highly suggest that the guns are 730 pattern export ciws.
Regarding MFR -- well Janes did quote the CSSC official saying the Navy is supposedly buying a variant of this ship. We obviously don't know what such a variant will look like, but my point is that the ship is big enough to accommodate a medium sized MFR.
As for the range of MR SAMs for ASW... would the ships like 056/As operate that far (100km+ apart) from each other? I'm not quite privy to what the norms of current littoral and near seas ASW formations are like, but if it is multiple ships operating together, then 100+ km away from each other seems a bit much -- I'm not even sure if modern CSGs operate with escorts that far away from each other.
I was envisioning maybe 20+km away at most, and where ships may even operate in relatively close pairs to provide mutual support, and where those pairs in turn have a trimaran frigate between them to provide overwatch.
This is my own idea of the 056/As concept of operations for the ASW mission which I've had for a while, where a small group would would operate in some relative proximity patrolling areas of strategic significance or patrolling areas of suspicion. The only thing missing for my vision was a ship that could provide medium range air defence against medium intensity air threats, a ship that can provide command/coordination for the group, and a ship that could provide organic ASW helicopter support to the group of 056/As. And I think this trimaran could fit all three tasks quite handily.
I do not believe this ship is meant to be a replacement for 056/A. The difference in capability and cost is too great. I do believe this ship can be a very useful supplement however.
Is it? If we look at the superstructure and mast, I struggle to see how an MFR would fit on there (especially facing aft), even a "medium-sized" MFR, something we have no photographic evidence of the PLAN ever developing. The other part of the equation is the VLS. It would have to be the universal VLS with some kind of quad-packed SAM in order to justify the expense and complexity of an MFR given what seems to be only 2 8-cell modules at the bow. IF the PLAN has developed a smallish MFR (and it would have to be small), and IF the universal VLS is what's depicted in the model, and IF the PLAN has developed a quad-packed MRSAM to go with it, then maybe an MFR on this ship would make more sense.
You seem to think that ships performing ASW have to operate or routinely operate in packs. Why? In a CSG there is only one ship acting as ASW, possibly two. If there are two, they are operating several dozen km from each other (inner and outer screen). 056/As don't have any means to provide each other any kind of "mutual support", unless you are talking about support from enemy surface ships with their antiship missiles and main guns, but if that's a real risk then you should already have brought along a much bigger gun than another 056/A. And if a 056/A is operating in a "medium intensity air threat" environment, then it is already fail strategy and somebody wasn't thinking straight sending a 056/A into that kind of threat level, with or without escort. In any case if 056/As are performing ASW as part of some kind of "task force", they will not be close together since there is no need for this, either for sensor density or for some kind of mutual protection. They would certainly not be only 20km from each other.
Yes, wholesale "replacement" is unlikely, but a replacement for the 056A subset, certainly. Even if the cost is significantly greater than the 056A, the role wouldn't be exactly the same. The 056 is a general purpose littoral patrol corvette. The 056A has increased sub detection capability but no greater sub attack capability. This trimaran would almost certainly be able to detect and fully prosecute sub contacts, so it would be definitely be an upgrade to the 056A. This ship could represent PLAN's desire to double down on significantly and rapidly improving its ASW capabilities.
Lethe
Captain
I would not place too much emphasis on the exact configuration. Notice that the configuration displayed is intended for export, where most export clients are very price-sensitive. I think it is reasonable to assume that any PLAN variant would differ in a number of respects.
I see this vessel as succeeding 056 as China's "light" warship, with a future ~6000 ton frigate as the "medium" warship, and of course the 12-13,000 ton Type 055 as the "heavy".
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I'm thinking something the size of Thales APAR could fit atop the mast of that size yes.
And of course all of this is dependent on what the ship ends up being equipped with, which is what we are speculating about. The CSSC official said the PLAN is supposedly seeking a variant of the trimaran model they've displayed, so that gives us sufficient leeway to speculate about what sort of capabilities the Chinese Navy may desire.
I don't necessarily think all ASW missions must have ships operate in packs, obviously in blue water for CSG escorts they do not do so.
But I do think for ASW mission parameters that 056As may operate in (littoral or near Chinese waters) it may make sense to operate in packs. However like I said, I'm not sure if there is any open source material about what littoral/near seas ASW SOP is for most navies, so it is merely my own vision for its conops. Specifically, I was thinking about the 056As operating in groups and fielding their TAS and VDS as a sort of mobile multi-static sonar system.
And no, I don't think 056As would be deliberately sent into a medium intensity air threat environment -- I expect the Navy would expect the waters near China/Chinese littorals to be a relatively low intensity air threat environment, with layers of more capable and complex defence to thin out the enemy if they are trying to get near China -- however I also think that the calibre of opfor that the Chinese military will be facing means that they cannot discount the possibility of occasional medium intensity air threats slipping through the outer layers of defence and end up putting 056/As at some level of risk.
I think we may have differing perceptions of what "056A subset" means -- I see 056As ASW role as one where it is inherently defined and limited by its size, in terms of endurance, lack of hangar, lack of capable onboard ASW weapons like ASROC as well as lack of more capable air defence weapons... but I also think those omissions are all fine, because 056A is meant to be more of a cheaper, lower endurance, ship that operates in conjunction with a number of other assets.
This trimaran OTOH is a ship that displaces at least 1000 tons greater than an 056A and can perform the ASW role in a much more enduring and comprehensive way like a true frigate (including ASW helicopters and potentially VL ASROC type missiles), while also potentially having the capability to defend itself and nearby vessels from medium intensity air attacks if they are encountered. So through sheer size, I see such a ship as a complement rather than a replacement for the 056As ASW mission, as both occupy different size and capability profiles.
But I do agree, if the Navy does buy into this trimaran and if it is oriented towards ASW, then it would represent another example of the Navy seeking to advance its overall ASW capabilities.
I think in the long term this may well be a possibility, though in the medium term I think such a ship would be more of a complement to the 056/As than a replacement.
So, basically, the trimaran hull is confirmed, but details are still open. PLAN interest should be a confirmed thing as well.
Construction not before 2018.
China displays trimaran frigate design
By: February 21, 2017 (Photo Credit: Christopher P. Cavas / Staff)
ABU DHABI, United Arab Emirates – Navies have flirted with exotic hull forms for decades, and the US Navy is producing Independence-class littoral combat ships with a wave-piercing trimaran hull form. Now the Chinese Navy seems to be preparing a trimaran design that could enter production as a frigate for the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) and for export.
“We are in the development and design phase of the project,” said You Yue, China Shipbuilding Trading Company’s deputy director for business development for Western Asia and Africa. “The plan form is fixed but many details remain,” he said.
The plan form – the trimaran hull – allows the frigate to have a far greater beam than the more conventional monohull configuration. You also noted the ship will feature hull and superstructure shaping to reduce its radar signature.
A model displayed this week at the IDEX show here in Abu Dhabi combined, You said, many features which could be included in the PLAN’s version or in an export variant and did not necessarily depict a ship now under construction. Final decisions on the power plant, armament, sensor and combat system have yet to be made, he cautioned.
Data displayed with the model gave a displacement of about 2,450 tons; dimensions of 142 meters in length, 32 meters in beam and a draft of 6.2 meters. The power plant was given as a “marine electric propulsion system” with a speed of 25 knots and endurance of 5,000 nautical miles at 16 knots and 30 days.
Those figures could change for a production ship, You said, with a speed probably somewhere above 30 knots. He said an all-MTU diesel propulsion plant was being considered, driving three waterjets.
The model displayed the range of weapons typical for a small warship: a gun in the 76mm or 100mm range; a vertical launch system for surface-to-air missiles behind the gun and forward of the superstructure; surface-to-surface missiles in canister launchers amidships; close-in weapon systems and chaff launchers. The sensor suite was sized for a light frigate.
The model featured a double hangar and side doors along the hangar to launch small boats. There is no mission bay as in the American LCS, and no stern doors below the flight deck, which sits relatively low and close to the water. A bow sonar is depicted.
With the design still to be finalized, You said he didn’t expect construction of the first PLAN trimaran frigate to begin before 2018.
Along with the trimaran, CSSC – a consortium of more than a dozen Chinese shipbuilders formed to promote the industry -- displayed a number of designs available for export, most based on existing PLAN or Chinese Coast Guard designs. The largest was a 25,000-ton variant of the Chinese Navy’s Type 071 LPD landing ship dock. Shen Yue, CSSC’s project manager for Africa and West Asia, noted customers could choose different features than those fitted in PLAN LPDs, including a different power plant, modified flight deck and weapons fit, and a different combat management system.
Other designs on display included several frigate and corvette designs, ranging from 1,000 to 4,000 tons; a 22,000-ton replenishment ship similar to those built for the PLAN; and a number of smaller Coast Guard vessels.
Construction not before 2018.
China displays trimaran frigate design
By: February 21, 2017 (Photo Credit: Christopher P. Cavas / Staff)
ABU DHABI, United Arab Emirates – Navies have flirted with exotic hull forms for decades, and the US Navy is producing Independence-class littoral combat ships with a wave-piercing trimaran hull form. Now the Chinese Navy seems to be preparing a trimaran design that could enter production as a frigate for the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) and for export.
“We are in the development and design phase of the project,” said You Yue, China Shipbuilding Trading Company’s deputy director for business development for Western Asia and Africa. “The plan form is fixed but many details remain,” he said.
The plan form – the trimaran hull – allows the frigate to have a far greater beam than the more conventional monohull configuration. You also noted the ship will feature hull and superstructure shaping to reduce its radar signature.
A model displayed this week at the IDEX show here in Abu Dhabi combined, You said, many features which could be included in the PLAN’s version or in an export variant and did not necessarily depict a ship now under construction. Final decisions on the power plant, armament, sensor and combat system have yet to be made, he cautioned.
Data displayed with the model gave a displacement of about 2,450 tons; dimensions of 142 meters in length, 32 meters in beam and a draft of 6.2 meters. The power plant was given as a “marine electric propulsion system” with a speed of 25 knots and endurance of 5,000 nautical miles at 16 knots and 30 days.
Those figures could change for a production ship, You said, with a speed probably somewhere above 30 knots. He said an all-MTU diesel propulsion plant was being considered, driving three waterjets.
The model displayed the range of weapons typical for a small warship: a gun in the 76mm or 100mm range; a vertical launch system for surface-to-air missiles behind the gun and forward of the superstructure; surface-to-surface missiles in canister launchers amidships; close-in weapon systems and chaff launchers. The sensor suite was sized for a light frigate.
The model featured a double hangar and side doors along the hangar to launch small boats. There is no mission bay as in the American LCS, and no stern doors below the flight deck, which sits relatively low and close to the water. A bow sonar is depicted.
With the design still to be finalized, You said he didn’t expect construction of the first PLAN trimaran frigate to begin before 2018.
Along with the trimaran, CSSC – a consortium of more than a dozen Chinese shipbuilders formed to promote the industry -- displayed a number of designs available for export, most based on existing PLAN or Chinese Coast Guard designs. The largest was a 25,000-ton variant of the Chinese Navy’s Type 071 LPD landing ship dock. Shen Yue, CSSC’s project manager for Africa and West Asia, noted customers could choose different features than those fitted in PLAN LPDs, including a different power plant, modified flight deck and weapons fit, and a different combat management system.
Other designs on display included several frigate and corvette designs, ranging from 1,000 to 4,000 tons; a 22,000-ton replenishment ship similar to those built for the PLAN; and a number of smaller Coast Guard vessels.
More info about the trimaran frigate. some important parts are bolded
edit: lol same article that insignius posted just above, but I'll leave this one here to emphasize the bolded parts.
China displays trimaran frigate design
By: Christopher P. Cavas, February 21, 2017 (Photo Credit: Christopher P. Cavas / Staff)
ABU DHABI, United Arab Emirates – Navies have flirted with exotic hull forms for decades, and the US Navy is producing Independence-class littoral combat ships with a wave-piercing trimaran hull form. Now the Chinese Navy seems to be preparing a trimaran design that could enter production as a frigate for the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) and for export.
“We are in the development and design phase of the project,” said You Yue, China Shipbuilding Trading Company’s deputy director for business development for Western Asia and Africa. “The plan form is fixed but many details remain,” he said.
The plan form – the trimaran hull – allows the frigate to have a far greater beam than the more conventional monohull configuration. You also noted the ship will feature hull and superstructure shaping to reduce its radar signature.
A model displayed this week at the IDEX show here in Abu Dhabi combined, You said, many features which could be included in the PLAN’s version or in an export variant and did not necessarily depict a ship now under construction. Final decisions on the power plant, armament, sensor and combat system have yet to be made, he cautioned.
Data displayed with the model gave a displacement of about 2,450 tons; dimensions of 142 meters in length, 32 meters in beam and a draft of 6.2 meters. The power plant was given as a “marine electric propulsion system” with a speed of 25 knots and endurance of 5,000 nautical miles at 16 knots and 30 days.
Those figures could change for a production ship, You said, with a speed probably somewhere above 30 knots. He said an all-MTU diesel propulsion plant was being considered, driving three waterjets.
The model displayed the range of weapons typical for a small warship: a gun in the 76mm or 100mm range; a vertical launch system for surface-to-air missiles behind the gun and forward of the superstructure; surface-to-surface missiles in canister launchers amidships; close-in weapon systems and chaff launchers. The sensor suite was sized for a light frigate.
The model featured a double hangar and side doors along the hangar to launch small boats. There is no mission bay as in the American LCS, and no stern doors below the flight deck, which sits relatively low and close to the water. A bow sonar is depicted.
With the design still to be finalized, You said he didn’t expect construction of the first PLAN trimaran frigate to begin before 2018.
Along with the trimaran, CSSC – a consortium of more than a dozen Chinese shipbuilders formed to promote the industry -- displayed a number of designs available for export, most based on existing PLAN or Chinese Coast Guard designs. The largest was a 25,000-ton variant of the Chinese Navy’s Type 071 LPD landing ship dock. Shen Yue, CSSC’s project manager for Africa and West Asia, noted customers could choose different features than those fitted in PLAN LPDs, including a different power plant, modified flight deck and weapons fit, and a different combat management system.
Other designs on display included several frigate and corvette designs, ranging from 1,000 to 4,000 tons; a 22,000-ton replenishment ship similar to those built for the PLAN; and a number of smaller Coast Guard vessels.
edit: lol same article that insignius posted just above, but I'll leave this one here to emphasize the bolded parts.
China displays trimaran frigate design
By: Christopher P. Cavas, February 21, 2017 (Photo Credit: Christopher P. Cavas / Staff)
ABU DHABI, United Arab Emirates – Navies have flirted with exotic hull forms for decades, and the US Navy is producing Independence-class littoral combat ships with a wave-piercing trimaran hull form. Now the Chinese Navy seems to be preparing a trimaran design that could enter production as a frigate for the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) and for export.
“We are in the development and design phase of the project,” said You Yue, China Shipbuilding Trading Company’s deputy director for business development for Western Asia and Africa. “The plan form is fixed but many details remain,” he said.
The plan form – the trimaran hull – allows the frigate to have a far greater beam than the more conventional monohull configuration. You also noted the ship will feature hull and superstructure shaping to reduce its radar signature.
A model displayed this week at the IDEX show here in Abu Dhabi combined, You said, many features which could be included in the PLAN’s version or in an export variant and did not necessarily depict a ship now under construction. Final decisions on the power plant, armament, sensor and combat system have yet to be made, he cautioned.
Data displayed with the model gave a displacement of about 2,450 tons; dimensions of 142 meters in length, 32 meters in beam and a draft of 6.2 meters. The power plant was given as a “marine electric propulsion system” with a speed of 25 knots and endurance of 5,000 nautical miles at 16 knots and 30 days.
Those figures could change for a production ship, You said, with a speed probably somewhere above 30 knots. He said an all-MTU diesel propulsion plant was being considered, driving three waterjets.
The model displayed the range of weapons typical for a small warship: a gun in the 76mm or 100mm range; a vertical launch system for surface-to-air missiles behind the gun and forward of the superstructure; surface-to-surface missiles in canister launchers amidships; close-in weapon systems and chaff launchers. The sensor suite was sized for a light frigate.
The model featured a double hangar and side doors along the hangar to launch small boats. There is no mission bay as in the American LCS, and no stern doors below the flight deck, which sits relatively low and close to the water. A bow sonar is depicted.
With the design still to be finalized, You said he didn’t expect construction of the first PLAN trimaran frigate to begin before 2018.
Along with the trimaran, CSSC – a consortium of more than a dozen Chinese shipbuilders formed to promote the industry -- displayed a number of designs available for export, most based on existing PLAN or Chinese Coast Guard designs. The largest was a 25,000-ton variant of the Chinese Navy’s Type 071 LPD landing ship dock. Shen Yue, CSSC’s project manager for Africa and West Asia, noted customers could choose different features than those fitted in PLAN LPDs, including a different power plant, modified flight deck and weapons fit, and a different combat management system.
Other designs on display included several frigate and corvette designs, ranging from 1,000 to 4,000 tons; a 22,000-ton replenishment ship similar to those built for the PLAN; and a number of smaller Coast Guard vessels.
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