PLAN Current Vessel Inventory Thread

[peterAustralia]

Well time will tell if your right. I have for a long time, over two years, thought that there would be about sixty built. The reason is that it is a cheap vessel, capable, and fills in the gap in the areas reasonably close to the Chinese coast. So thirty general purpose corvettes, plus thirty anti submarine corvettes seems to make sense. In the coast around China, each group of larger destroyers could have 3 or 4 type 56 corvettes forming an outer screen. If a type 56 gets sunk, so be it.

With submarines just so dangerous, ASW corvettes are going to be very very useful. Now they have built thirty in 2.5 years, so why stop. All the tooling is worked out, the skills needed to build further ships are already in place. Why build forty ships in say 3.5 years and then stop, if forty was the planned number why not spread that out over six or seven years. Now the builders are familiar with construction, suppliers know how to make kit, unit cost will be coming down and down.

So in the end it just comes down to opinion. You could be right, however I am pretty sure there will be sixty vessels all up, scrap the Type 37s, there is a lot of ocean to patrol, and small ships like this are going to be very useful and highly cost effective. Plus the economy in China has slowed down just a little, and the government wants to keep spending money to keep everyone happy

An aside, I was watching a youtube video, Chinese military technology although it has advanced a lot, is still a long way behind the west. Example, Chinese nuclear subs are as noisy as Soviet Delta subs of the 1980s, so obviously they still have a way to go.

I am sure that in decades to come, the gap will close, but China is still quite a way behind

 

[Jeff Head]

I believe that the PLAN order of battle is probably going to include 60 Type 056s. They are needed to replace the large numbers of older, less capable frigates. Those older ships do not require a large Type 054A/B FFG to accomplish their missions, but a Type 056 will more than suffice.

I believe a total of 36 Type 054A/Bs is in the offing.

I believe there will be a total of 6 Type 052Cs plus perhaps 18Type 052D DDGs.

Add a dozen Type 055 vessels and, in that time frame you end up with (adding the Sovs, the Type 051C in there that will still be in operation) and you end up with:

60 FFLs
36 FFGs
30 DDGs
12 CGs

This is a total of 138 major surface combatants for the PLAN. A very large, capable, modern force. Second to only the US Navy in numbers...but not by much.

In this same time frame that all of those will be in operations, the US Navy will have

55 LCS/FFs
90 Burke DDGs
03 Zumwalt DDGs

That's 148 very modern, very capable surface combatants.

 

[schenkus]

So when the PLAN establishes a major overseas naval base, you will probably see a squadron of 4 x 056s being home ported there, with maybe 1 054A there at all times on rotation.

I don't think the 056 would be a good match for most overseas bases. I think they are meant to operate in a "coastal defence" role near their bases.

If your overseas base is not just meant to protect a specific spot on the map, but to reduce your reaction time to problems in the region you will need an asset that can operate independently over bigger distances and that is strong enough to respond to these problems.

Same thing with the new island bases China has built in the SCS.

The islands in the SCS should fit the 056 very well

 

[plawolf]

I don't think the 056 would be a good match for most overseas bases. I think they are meant to operate in a "coastal defence" role near their bases.

If your overseas base is not just meant to protect a specific spot on the map, but to reduce your reaction time to problems in the region you will need an asset that can operate independently over bigger distances and that is strong enough to respond to these problems.

I think you are selling the 056 short by calling it a coastal defence boat. That's what its predecessors were limited to. The 056 is much more capable and flexible, able to carry out a wide range of missions independently. It is basically China's version of the LCS, and will perform many of the same missions the USN sees for its LCS' in my view.

Many if not most foreign naval bases have a home ported fleet for defence and first response operations, and I think the PLAN will do the same with its foreign bases.

With Djibouti the most likely candidate, 056s would be very useful for that region and location considering the threat environment without being overkill and a waste to use bigger, more capable ships.

With one FFG or DDG constantly on hand through rotations, that should be all the firepower such a base needs for self defence and contingency missions.

Lets not forget that the whole point of having foreign bases is to support the expected vastly expanded blue water operations of the PLAN.

I would expect a PLAN action group consisting of 2-4 FFG/DDGs with maybe a sub and replenishment ship to be constantly on deployment in the region, maybe even a Carrier Strike Group once the PLAN has gotten 6 or more carriers operational.

It is those ships that the overseas bases are there ultimately to support, and which will handle any major events.

The home ported ships are more for your run of the mill small operations you don't need to call in the big guns for.

Things like patrolling, answering distress calls, tackling local piracy/hijacking problems, providing escort for replenishment ships coming in to the base to resupply, and general show the flag missions.

Just because the USN uses Burkes for such missions does not mean you need DDGs for those missions or that DDGs are indeed best suited for those missions.

Even the USN is finding its previous DDG dominated fleet inflexible and inefficient, and that's why it's getting LCS', and those LCS' are not just kept for coastal defence missions, but forward deployed to "frontline" bases across the world.

I would expect the PLAN to do something similar with its 056s once they have established foreign bases.

 

[Jeff Head]

The Type 056 vessels are powerfully enough armed, with very decent sensors, that I would call them a light frigate in terms of displacement and armament.

Heck, they have enough fore power to be dangerous to any frigate or destroyer that gets within range of them, and they have the capability, when carrying a ASW helo, to do some serious ASW work too.

They are China's own version of a Littoral Combat Ship...and I think they did a very good job of it.

 

[B.I.B.]

I believe that the PLAN order of battle is probably going to include 60 Type 056s. They are needed to replace the large numbers of older, less capable frigates. Those older ships do not require a large Type 054A/B FFG to accomplish their missions, but a Type 056 will more than suffice.

I believe a total of 36 Type 054A/Bs is in the offing.

I believe there will be a total of 6 Type 052Cs plus perhaps 18Type 052D DDGs.

Add a dozen Type 055 vessels and, in that time frame you end up with (adding the Sovs, the Type 051C in there that will still be in operation) and you end up with:

60 FFLs
36 FFGs
30 DDGs
12 CGs

This is a total of 138 major surface combatants for the PLAN. A very large, capable, modern force. Second to only the US Navy in numbers...but not by much.

In this same time frame that all of those will be in operations, the US Navy will have

55 LCS/FFs
90 Burke DDGs
03 Zumwalt DDGs

That's 148 very modern, very capable surface combatants.

I understand in the early days of the modernisation of the PLAN a frigate was built with American supplied engines. Is that boat still in service and is counted in your lineup?

 

[FORBIN]

 

[FORBIN]

December 2015 udapte,

Recently new : a DDG 052D, a CS 903A.

And 7 x 051/Luda good number no 6 he was missing a 051D/Luda I in last udapte.
+ or - difference since august 2015 last udapte.

CV : 1
001 Liaoning: 1
001A ( building )

LPD : 3
071 : 3
LST + 4000 t : 29
072A : 11, + 1
072 I : 3
072 II : 4
072 III : 11

DDG : 27
052D : 3, + 1
052C : 6
052B : 2
052 : 2
051D : 3
051G1/2/DT : 4
051C : 2
051B :1
Project 956/EM : 2/2

FFG : 47
054 : 2
054A : 20 + 1
053H3 : 10
053H2G : 1, 3 retired transfered to Coast Guards
053H : 0, 2 only tests/training no warships
053H1 : 6
053H2 : 1
053H1Q : 1
053H1G : 6

Corvettes : ~ 116
056 : 23, + 1
037 II : 6
037 IG : 19, 20 beginning 2015 since one retired
037/IS : about 68

Missile boats : 60
022 : 60

SSBN/SSN : 9/15
094 : 4
093 : 2/6 now it is very often mentioned 4 new 093B or G ? in service or almost
091 : 3

SSK : 49/52
039/G/G1 : 13, some say 16
039A/B : 12 planned 20
Project 877/636/636M : 12
035 : 12

Combat support ships, large : 8
903/A : 5, + 1
905 : 2
908 : 1

Minesweepers : 37, - 1 : 2 Type 6610 retired from 2013 and 1 new 082II Wosang, 05/2015.

 

[Jeff Head]

December 2015 udapte,

Recently new : a DDG 052D, a CS 903A.

And 7 x 051/Luda good number no 6 he was missing a 051D/Luda I in last udapte.
+ or - difference since august 2015 last udapte.


LPD : 3
071 : 3
.

Don't forget the 4th Type 071. It is launched and outfitting.

 

[steve_rolfe]

I find the PLAN nuclear sub inventory confusing, as over the years we keep seeing pictures of supposed new subs, but the overall count seems to be the same, and yes i have taken into account the decommissioning of the 091 Han class, as and when that occurs.
It seems to me, only the Chinese themselves know how many submarines they have, as the intelligence agencies of other countries, seem to be unsure of the true numbers.