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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Guys, in case it comes up here.. the report coming out of Debka from Russia that the Chinese carrier has docked in Syria is completely bogus.

There is and has been no sign of it through the Suez or the Gibraltar straits...no other mention of it sailing away from the China Sea.

Just wanted to give you all a heads up. Debka is notoriously willing to make stuff up to grab headlines.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
Guys, in case it comes up here.. the report coming out of Debka from Russia that the Chinese carrier has docked in Syria is completely bogus.

There is and has been no sign of it through the Suez or the Gibraltar straits...no other mention of it sailing away from the China Sea.

Just wanted to give you all a heads up. Debka is notoriously willing to make stuff up to grab headlines.
Is there any Chinese naval ships docked in Syria?
 

JayBird

Junior Member
So... looks like I was wrong after reading pop3's post on 167 upgrade today on dingsheng. Here is the rough translation below. :p

It's almost impossible for average military enthusiasts to know what's being done on 167 unless they can see the specific upgrade proposal. And even after the final result is out with pictures fans can only speculate like looking at a leopard through a tube, to see only one spot. After all, most military enthusiasts are not professionals and will mainly focus their attention on the surface/outside changes of the ship, but usually one of the the most important changes are electronic devices, and we seldom can tell the differences from just the antenna and terminals from the outside.

But from my 10+ times of participation in modification/upgrading ships the most critical factor is still coming down to how much founding in the end, because usually you already have a proposed budget before the work began, and you can only retrofit and design the upgrade in this context. Of course, the budget is not just some figment of the imagination by someone, but a combination of various factors, like certain basic combat/mission requirements must be met after the modification. This is a balancing process and bargining result and coordinated between the designers, shipyard and the navy headquarter.

167 also had some major upgrades with her system in the last 10 years, it was built as a command ship and I believe that position will not be changed after the modification this time. Of course the command techniques/ instruments now are several generations more advanced compared to when it was first built. For example, even the last upgraded 905 data link is obsolete compare to today and will be removed.

As for hardware upgrades mainly depending on the budget and how much found is available, wholesale changes if there is enough founds or just weapon system change if the budget is limited. It's like the two type 052 ships 112 and 113 refit everyone is familar with, people think they are still using the same old system, there doesn't seem to be any changes compared to before the refit, but in fact they actually underwent major upgrades, just the new main gun system cost 10 million RMB. And subsequentlly all of the electronic equipment system was replaced. The total expenditures on these upgrades were stunning, but average military fans don't see much difference just from the outside.

The new installation of a integrated mast for 167 is very reasonable conclusion, as the navy statrted working on comprehensive information integration 10 plus years ago, and started the equipment integration work several years ago. these efforts are bound to be applied to 055, domestic carrier, and new frigates. Also, don't be surprise to see the application of these results on the newly designed auxiliary ship and modified older ships.

The available founds for 167 and 956 upgrade compared to the previous type 052 is substantial, therefore it's logical to introduce more new equipments and new technology upgrade on these ships. But 167 is definitely not a test bed ship. As military products developed its own procedural requirements, a certain type of equipments or technology first appeared on certain ships doesn't mean it was just for testing. Except in the case of the dedicated test ships specifically for weapons and new equipment testing tasks.

167舰具体如何改只能看方案了,对军迷而言,这是不可能的事情。 就算是最后的结果出来---我指的是改完后的图片----也只能是管中窥豹。 军迷毕竟不是专业人士,所关注的焦点基本都在舰面设备的变化上,而任何舰船的改装的重点之一都是电子设备,电子设备的变化程度,能从舰面设备如天线这些终端上能看出来的毕竟是极少数。

就我参与的大小10多次的改装而言,改装最关键的因素是经费,通常事先会有经费概算,在此前提下进行改装设计。 当然,经费预算也不是凭空想象的,而是综合了各方面的因素,如改装后的最基本的作战使命必须满足等等,这是一个“讨价还价”的平衡过程,是水师与总部的协调结果。

167舰当初建造时的主要定位之一就是指挥舰,我认为这个定位不会取消,而167舰在近10年的时间里也进行过编指系统的大升级。 当然,现在的指挥手段与当初来比较的话,先进了多少代了,就算与上次升级比较也同样如此,比如,当初167建造时装的那个数据链,现在都换了好几代了,而后次升级的905数据链也已经淘汰。

至于硬武器的改装,主要还是看经费预算,经费多则用新的换旧的,经费少则将原来的武器系统进行升级,如大家耳熟能详的052型的112、113舰的改装,一炮两弹系统看上去似乎没变,而实际上都进行大的升级,仅主炮系统的升级费用就超过千万。052型两舰的改装,在电子设备系统上则基本全部换掉,所耗经费也是惊人的,但这些从舰面设备和终端上能看出端倪的军迷几乎没有。

167舰安装一体化桅杆也是可以理解的,在10多年前水师启动了信息综合集成工作,在数年前启动了装备集成化工作,这些努力的成果必然会得到应用,在055型驱逐舰、国产航母和新护卫舰上必然会使用这些成果,在新设计的辅助舰和新改装的舰船上应用这些成果也同样毫不奇怪。

167舰和956舰的改装经费,比以前052型舰宽裕了很多,采用新设备、新技术也是正常的。 但167舰绝对不可能是什么试验性质的舰,军工产品的研制自有其程序要求,不能因为某型设备或技术最早出现在某舰上就认定是试验性质,当然,专职试验舰除外。
 

by78

General
PLAN task force in Finland:

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Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Yep, but it pass the "500 ton" mark right? Therefore depicting China is building up it's navy, as a result...new bogey man in town.

This chart is not displaying navy ships, it is displaying coast guard and maritime law enforcement ships. The navies of those countries have nothing to do with the graph.

That website has got it completely wrong.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
This chart is not displaying navy ships, it is displaying coast guard and maritime law enforcement ships. The navies of those countries have nothing to do with the graph.

That website has got it completely wrong.

True, but it doesn't matter, as long as it can grasp the readers uneducated point of view across about China that's all that counts to them.
 
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