PLAN Anti-ship/surface missiles

latenlazy said:

All that says is it probably shares the same basic aerodynamics. Exterior appearance tells us nothing about the missile's construction, propulsion, and ordinance.

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AssassinsMace said:

Desperate people look for excuses. When the J-20 was officially inducted into the military, I read a comment from a news article that said take away the canards and the J-20 looks exactly like the F-22.

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Those are idiots who don't know how to look at details and think all fighters look the same. Here we have a missile that looks exactly like the Klub, a missile which China is known to have purchased. So what one would basically have to be saying is that China took the exterior shape of the missile only and totally gutted the interior. In that case why not just design a brand new missile? China certainly has the technological capability at this point. The YJ-18 looks exactly like the 3M54E from head to toe; not only that, China actually HAS the 3M54E in hand to dissect and work on. Could they have made modifications to it? I have no doubt that they did, just as the J-11B is a close replica of the Su-27 with some improvements in the design. The problem is guessing the extent of the modifications.

antiterror13 said:

very true .. and the article was written by a respected guy who may know better than most of us here (me included )

It says that the YJ-18 is roughly half the weight of Klub and has much longer range ... so it can't be a replica ... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out

Most cars also look the same

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Please tell me how Henri knows the range of this missile with reasonable certainty, something which certainly would be a classified piece of information. We have all heard the number "500km" in reference to the YJ-18 (including no doubt Henri), but many people, including people on SDF, have questioned whether this number accurately represents the range of this missile, specifically in its subsonic/supersonic form. While Henri may have better knowledge than most of us, he is certainly not a 'big shrimp'; I tend to think of him as a better information vacuum than the average military enthusiast, but he is certainly not directly connected to the Chinese military industrial complex.

Iron Man said:

Those are idiots who don't know how to look at details and think all fighters look the same. Here we have a missile that looks exactly like the Klub, a missile which China is known to have purchased. So what one would basically have to be saying is that China took the exterior shape of the missile only and totally gutted the interior. In that case why not just design a brand new missile? China certainly has the technological capability at this point. The YJ-18 looks exactly like the 3M54E from head to toe; not only that, China actually HAS the 3M54E in hand to dissect and work on. Could they have made modifications to it? I have no doubt that they did, just as the J-11B is a close replica of the Su-27 with some improvements in the design. The problem is guessing the extent of the modifications.

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China isn't the first and won't be the last country that takes one missile shape and squeezes significantly more performance out of it. Maybe they are designing anorher missile. That doesn't exclude improving the performance of one they already have.

Iron Man said:

Those are idiots who don't know how to look at details and think all fighters look the same. Here we have a missile that looks exactly like the Klub, a missile which China is known to have purchased. So what one would basically have to be saying is that China took the exterior shape of the missile only and totally gutted the interior. In that case why not just design a brand new missile? China certainly has the technological capability at this point. The YJ-18 looks exactly like the 3M54E from head to toe; not only that, China actually HAS the 3M54E in hand to dissect and work on. Could they have made modifications to it? I have no doubt that they did, just as the J-11B is a close replica of the Su-27 with some improvements in the design. The problem is guessing the extent of the modifications.


Please tell me how Henri knows the range of this missile with reasonable certainty, something which certainly would be a classified piece of information. We have all heard the number "500km" in reference to the YJ-18 (including no doubt Henri), but many people, including people on SDF, have questioned whether this number accurately represents the range of this missile, specifically in its subsonic/supersonic form. While Henri may have better knowledge than most of us, he is certainly not a 'big shrimp'; I tend to think of him as a better information vacuum than the average military enthusiast, but he is certainly not directly connected to the Chinese military industrial complex.

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Henri K work for 8 years in Aerospace industry in China He is fluent in Chinese He got all the connection build over that 8 years in Chinese aerospace industry. He still refer to his connection from time to time

He definitely know more than you self proclaim expert. You are just nobody reading too much into western propaganda and has severe inferiority complex! Anything US is super duper anything Chinese is copy
He is license aerospace engineer at managerial position and you don't even know what plan view is that is beginner drawing 101

His article is based on reading Chinese aerospace journal that how you get the glimpse into Chinese aerospace technology It is not detail design as that is the nature of technical journal but provide enough information for peer review and repeat the same experiment
He is better than big shrimp since he understand the technology and read the article on those technology. Big shrimp is hit and miss kind of thing

So yes he has healthy respect for Chinese aerospace industry He always quote the the paper
Yours is just personal opinion based on nothing but prejudice and inferiority complex

latenlazy said:

China isn't the first and won't be the last country that takes one missile shape and squeezes significantly more performance out of it. Maybe they are designing anorher missile. That doesn't exclude improving the performance of one they already have.

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Missile shape is determined by the internals, especially unique missile shapes like the 3M54E. That means that whatever China did subsequently, it started out with the 3M54E and made a close replica of it which became the YJ-18. They may have been able to subsequently improve on the performance with later iterations; the question is whether they more than doubled a 220km range to a 500km range in an allegedly SMALLER missile body, by which I assume Henri means shorter, in a missile that requires both a turbofan/turbojet for early-midcourse cruise and then a rocket motor for the terminal stage. Not much room for more fuel to begin with, and now you want to make it even smaller. While there is certainly room for technological improvement, there is also certainly room for a large dose of healthy skepticism in this case.

Hendrik_2000 said:

Henri K work for 8 years in Aerospace industry in China He is fluent in Chinese He got all the connection build over that 8 years in Chinese aerospace industry. He still refer to his connection from time to time

He definitely know more than you self proclaim expert. You are just nobody reading too much into western propaganda and has severe inferiority complex! Anything US is super duper anything Chinese is copy
He is license aerospace engineer at managerial position and you don't even know what plan view is that is beginner drawing 101

His article is based on reading Chinese aerospace journal that how you get the glimpse into Chinese aerospace technology It is not detail design as that is the nature of technical journal but provide enough information for peer review and repeat the same experiment
He is better than big shrimp since he understand the technology and read the article on those technology. Big shrimp is hit and miss kind of thing

So yes he has healthy respect for Chinese aerospace industry He always quote the the paper
Yours is just personal opinion based on nothing but prejudice and inferiority complex

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LOL so much butthurt coming from SDF's biggest fanboi. FYI fanboism is the world's biggest risk factor for morbidly low IQ, though I'm sure you're completely unaware of this. Just because Henri worked for 8 years in the aerospace industry DOESN'T mean his "connections" (assuming he actually has any of relevance) would ever pass anything classified to him, or that his aerospace expertise extends to or even remotely involves missiles and missile engines. That's like saying a gastroenterologist is an "expert" in cardiology just because he is a doctor, or a patent lawyer knows anything about corporate law just because he is a lawyer, or an electrical engineer knows shit about civil engineering just because he is an engineer. This is just a fantasy that simpleton fanbois like to use to justify his proclamations that you like, and when he says something that you don't, you conveniently forget his "expertise" immediately.

Iron Man said:

Those are idiots who don't know how to look at details and think all fighters look the same. Here we have a missile that looks exactly like the Klub, a missile which China is known to have purchased. So what one would basically have to be saying is that China took the exterior shape of the missile only and totally gutted the interior. In that case why not just design a brand new missile? China certainly has the technological capability at this point. The YJ-18 looks exactly like the 3M54E from head to toe; not only that, China actually HAS the 3M54E in hand to dissect and work on. Could they have made modifications to it? I have no doubt that they did, just as the J-11B is a close replica of the Su-27 with some improvements in the design. The problem is guessing the extent of the modifications.

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The laws of aerodynamic do not care about nationality, and China is not so vain and insecure as to feel it needs to needlessly reinvent the wheel just to claim originality.

As far as the Chinese are concerned, if the aerodynamics of the klub meets the needs for their new missile, they will quite happily use that external shaping and instead focus their time, money and talents on other fields.

What westerns now call copying is really just building on the foundations laid by others and improving upon it. Which was recognised as progress even in the west until fairly recently.

The fact that the west is now so obsessed with shallow appearances is one of the main reasons China has been able to catch up so quick.

Just look at the endless petty lawsuits being rallied back and forth between the likes of Apple and Samsung for trying to reinvent technology the other patented first to see the time and reasources such pointless insistence on originality is costing.

plawolf said:

What westerns now call copying is really just building on the foundations laid by others and improving upon it. Which was recognised as progress even in the west until fairly recently.

The fact that the west is now so obsessed with shallow appearances is one of the main reasons China has been able to catch up so quick.

Just look at the endless petty lawsuits being rallied back and forth between the likes of Apple and Samsung for trying to reinvent technology the other patented first to see the time and reasources such pointless insistence on originality is costing.

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This 100% so true. People have too sensitive an ego or too much pride to understand this.

plawolf said:

The laws of aerodynamic do not care about nationality, and China is not so vain and insecure as to feel it needs to needlessly reinvent the wheel just to claim originality.

As far as the Chinese are concerned, if the aerodynamics of the klub meets the needs for their new missile, they will quite happily use that external shaping and instead focus their time, money and talents on other fields.

What westerns now call copying is really just building on the foundations laid by others and improving upon it. Which was recognised as progress even in the west until fairly recently.

The fact that the west is now so obsessed with shallow appearances is one of the main reasons China has been able to catch up so quick.

Just look at the endless petty lawsuits being rallied back and forth between the likes of Apple and Samsung for trying to reinvent technology the other patented first to see the time and reasources such pointless insistence on originality is costing.

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The greater vanity by far is people who look at the YJ-18, see that it looks EXACTLY like the Klub, know that the Chinese actually possess the Klub missile itself, and then turn around and have the gall to say that the Chinese only took the exterior and did everything else internal by themselves. That is nearly incomprehensible fly-in-the-face-of-reason vanity.

Just because something looks like another, it doesn't mean it's an exact copy inside and out therefore not perform the same. Just because a J-11 domestic variant looks like a Russian Flanker, does it mean it's exactly the same on the inside? Then why is their talk about Chinese weaker engines and stronger avionics. Isn't it suppose to be an exact copy thus performs exactly the same because it looks like it? How are Chinese hypersonic tests more successful than US hypersonic tests when they were stolen from the US as some charge in the first place? God favors the Chinese therefore they get a little extra?

AssassinsMace said:

Just because something looks like another, it doesn't mean it's an exact copy inside and out therefore not perform the same. Just because a J-11 domestic variant looks like a Russian Flanker, does it mean it's exactly the same on the inside? Then why is their talk about Chinese weaker engines and stronger avionics. Isn't it suppose to be an exact copy thus performs exactly the same because it looks like it? How are Chinese hypersonic tests more successful than US hypersonic tests when they were stolen from the US as some charge in the first place? God favors the Chinese therefore they get a little extra?

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Who said anything about "exact copy" in this thread? Look through this thread first and then link and quote where this occurred, and then you can come back and set up your straw man attack.

Another freaking argument on semantics