PLAAF Munitions
- Thread starter bd popeye
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Re: PLAAF precision guided munitions
The main problem with that is security. Since China doesn't own the Galileo sat. system, they are at the mercy of European whims. You can't put the accuracy of your precision weapon systems base on that. Europe can just pull out the plug and your back to dumb bomb accuracy.
Laser guided bombs are more accurate than GPS guided bombs, however, they have to be use on a nice clear weather and need someone to paint the target.
Do you really think a piece of signed paper will guarantee 100% that Europe will not block the Gallileo? Don't be naive.
Su-34 said:
The main problem with that is security. Since China doesn't own the Galileo sat. system, they are at the mercy of European whims. You can't put the accuracy of your precision weapon systems base on that. Europe can just pull out the plug and your back to dumb bomb accuracy.
Laser guided bombs are more accurate than GPS guided bombs, however, they have to be use on a nice clear weather and need someone to paint the target.
Do you really think a piece of signed paper will guarantee 100% that Europe will not block the Gallileo? Don't be naive.
Re: PLAAF precision guided munitions
BTW, Galileo won't be online til 2010, not 2008. Not that it matters terribly, just FYI.
Also, The Chinese system is just interregional. So it is probably good for PGM's in/around Taiwan, but would not be able to guide ICBM's anywhere far beyond China. I don't know much about the Russian system, but I have to wonder if it is recieving sufficient funding to replace satellites as they become inoperable. maybe Glonass has adeqaute funding support, maybe the sats have 20 year life expectancies, I don't know. Anyone have a clue?
BTW, Galileo won't be online til 2010, not 2008. Not that it matters terribly, just FYI.
Also, The Chinese system is just interregional. So it is probably good for PGM's in/around Taiwan, but would not be able to guide ICBM's anywhere far beyond China. I don't know much about the Russian system, but I have to wonder if it is recieving sufficient funding to replace satellites as they become inoperable. maybe Glonass has adeqaute funding support, maybe the sats have 20 year life expectancies, I don't know. Anyone have a clue?
Re: PLAAF precision guided munitions
Glonass is updated yes. Last launch i know of was in december of 2005 which replaced some old glonass satellites and put at least 2 new series glonass-m satellites into orbit. but it is an important deal to the russians and they are funding it. it was fully operational at some point in 1990s with 24 sats but lack of funding did make that number drop to 12 working sats at one time. Still, in several last years russians have started updating it, so right now that number stands at 18 working ones. New generation glonass-m is being tested although i know at least one launched glonass-m sats had to be pulled out of the test network in 2004 due to malfunction. its still being tweaked but they're constantly updateing it and working on it. Current plans call for making the network fully operational and fully global, once again, by 2008.
Glonass is updated yes. Last launch i know of was in december of 2005 which replaced some old glonass satellites and put at least 2 new series glonass-m satellites into orbit. but it is an important deal to the russians and they are funding it. it was fully operational at some point in 1990s with 24 sats but lack of funding did make that number drop to 12 working sats at one time. Still, in several last years russians have started updating it, so right now that number stands at 18 working ones. New generation glonass-m is being tested although i know at least one launched glonass-m sats had to be pulled out of the test network in 2004 due to malfunction. its still being tweaked but they're constantly updateing it and working on it. Current plans call for making the network fully operational and fully global, once again, by 2008.
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MIGleader
Banned Idiot
Re: PLAAF precision guided munitions
The Europeans have very little reason to stop transmission to China. China has superb relations with the Europeans, both with trade and bi-lateral partnerships. After a America did a certain something in 2003*cough*, more European nations started considering China as a good ally to have. In the case of war, the europeans would likely stall halting the blokage as long as possible, perhaps a few weeks, which is all china needs to win a local war. Anyhw, china has beidou and glonass as a back-up.
Anyhow, most LGMs only need to the one aircraft to illimuate the target and fire nowadays.
perhaps due to lack of funds, interest, or technology, china has not yet persued its own TV guoded bomb program. instead, it imports new russian models along with russian airforce surplus.
IDonT said:
The Europeans have very little reason to stop transmission to China. China has superb relations with the Europeans, both with trade and bi-lateral partnerships. After a America did a certain something in 2003*cough*, more European nations started considering China as a good ally to have. In the case of war, the europeans would likely stall halting the blokage as long as possible, perhaps a few weeks, which is all china needs to win a local war. Anyhw, china has beidou and glonass as a back-up.
Anyhow, most LGMs only need to the one aircraft to illimuate the target and fire nowadays.
perhaps due to lack of funds, interest, or technology, china has not yet persued its own TV guoded bomb program. instead, it imports new russian models along with russian airforce surplus.
Re: PLAAF precision guided munitions
Do not confuse superb relations with an alliance. European nations DO NOT consider China as "a good ally". Have you ever heard of NATO, EUROPE is America's ally. Especially now, with the new administration in Germany and the Iran nuke "crisis", Europe is squarely in the US court. That means Gallileo will NOT be used against the US, period.
Second, any Chinese military adventures will need to have Europe's approval if it wants to use Gallileo. Do you really Europe to have that kind of leverage over your foreign policy? I wouldn't.
MIGleader said:
Do not confuse superb relations with an alliance. European nations DO NOT consider China as "a good ally". Have you ever heard of NATO, EUROPE is America's ally. Especially now, with the new administration in Germany and the Iran nuke "crisis", Europe is squarely in the US court. That means Gallileo will NOT be used against the US, period.
Second, any Chinese military adventures will need to have Europe's approval if it wants to use Gallileo. Do you really Europe to have that kind of leverage over your foreign policy? I wouldn't.
MIGleader
Banned Idiot
Re: PLAAF precision guided munitions
Europe has promised the gallileo to everyone, including military and civilians, with the same accuracy to both. This kind of free for all service is what puts gallileo over the GPS. Gallieleo will continue to serve the user, and will even warn the user if the sattelite is about to shut down. Iran has no true relations with europe, so of course the europeans will side with the u.s. even so, Irans oil leaverage alone has managed to stall any kind of sanctions or punishment for several years. Just imagine how china could stall blocking gallileo.
IDonT said:
Europe has promised the gallileo to everyone, including military and civilians, with the same accuracy to both. This kind of free for all service is what puts gallileo over the GPS. Gallieleo will continue to serve the user, and will even warn the user if the sattelite is about to shut down. Iran has no true relations with europe, so of course the europeans will side with the u.s. even so, Irans oil leaverage alone has managed to stall any kind of sanctions or punishment for several years. Just imagine how china could stall blocking gallileo.
Re: PLAAF precision guided munitions
Do not confuse civilian and commerce obligation with military realities. If push comes to shove, Europe is on US's corner, Gallileo and all.
As I said, do you realy want a third party have a say on your foreign policy.
MIGleader said:
Do not confuse civilian and commerce obligation with military realities. If push comes to shove, Europe is on US's corner, Gallileo and all.
As I said, do you realy want a third party have a say on your foreign policy.
Roger604
Senior Member
Re: PLAAF precision guided munitions
You obviously haven't talked to many Europeans or taken a trip to Europe. Chirac has openly declared that France favors China over America. But America can count on Poland.
Besides, why do you think Europe would be on America's side? What has America done for Europe lately?
Also, I am under the impression that China is a full member of Galileo, and shares with other nations the technical control over the system. Do you have information to the contrary?
IDonT said:
You obviously haven't talked to many Europeans or taken a trip to Europe. Chirac has openly declared that France favors China over America. But America can count on Poland.
Besides, why do you think Europe would be on America's side? What has America done for Europe lately?
Also, I am under the impression that China is a full member of Galileo, and shares with other nations the technical control over the system. Do you have information to the contrary?
Re: PLAAF precision guided munitions
Gallileo Partnership
Partners
European Commission
ESA
GALILEO Joint Undertaking
Private sector participation
China is not in there
Article V of the NATO Treaty, which states:
The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all. Consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.
What the US did for Europe:
Defeated the Nazi
Marshall Plan
NATO = Keep the Russians Out, the Germans down, and the Americans in
The Bretton Woods System
Composed of the bulk of military forces in the Serbian Campaign
Roger604 said:
Gallileo Partnership
Partners
European Commission
ESA
GALILEO Joint Undertaking
Private sector participation
China is not in there
Article V of the NATO Treaty, which states:
The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all. Consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.
What the US did for Europe:
Defeated the Nazi
Marshall Plan
NATO = Keep the Russians Out, the Germans down, and the Americans in
The Bretton Woods System
Composed of the bulk of military forces in the Serbian Campaign