H-20 bomber (with H-X, JH-XX)

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
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Re: PLAAF new JH-XX / H-X bomber soncepts

My take is that all aspect stealth may not be as important for a supersonic capable bomber. You can effectively use the shoot and strategy and blitz your enemy when you launch the initial attack. After the munition has been launched, you can beat a speedy retreat.
 

Lion

Senior Member
Re: PLAAF new JH-XX / H-X bomber soncepts

My take is that all aspect stealth may not be as important for a supersonic capable bomber. You can effectively use the shoot and strategy and blitz your enemy when you launch the initial attack. After the munition has been launched, you can beat a speedy retreat.

Go by priority, Speed - Range - Stealth .........
 

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
Re: PLAAF new JH-XX / H-X bomber soncepts

My take is that all aspect stealth may not be as important for a supersonic capable bomber. You can effectively use the shoot and strategy and blitz your enemy when you launch the initial attack. After the munition has been launched, you can beat a speedy retreat.

Go by priority, Speed - Range - Stealth .........

I would however go for, high altitude (very high altitude), range and stealth though.
 

Inst

Captain
Re: PLAAF new JH-XX / H-X bomber soncepts

You do need stealth to survive against a modern fleet air defense, however. Doing a pure speed run; the F-18s are capable of Mach 2 speeds if necessary, and their AEW&C craft can spot you from long range to enable interception.

Stealth alone is also not a good thing; if the sortie goes bad, you want the ability to abort and get out, and with supersonic interceptors held by carrier fleets, you're going to get shot down if the mission goes bad.
 

Totoro

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Re: PLAAF new JH-XX / H-X bomber soncepts

it wouldn't be the first time people got the designation wrong. or maybe h18 designation is right, but it relates to subsonic wing, not a supersonic design.

it makes more sense for china to speed up jh7 replacement than h6k replacement. thus, we could expect jh7 replacement first. maybe all those reports about jh7b were right, but they just got the designation wrong. maybe its not a plane that has anything to do with jh7, but a whole new design.

id put my money on a supersonic heavy striker, not a bomber. bomber itself may indeed be a flying wing and subsonic, but we may not see that in another decade or so.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
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Re: PLAAF new JH-XX / H-X bomber soncepts

Are there any reports about WHERE this images were taken ???

I mean if we knew if it is Shenyang or Xian, we could at least say a bit more.

Deino
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
Re: PLAAF new JH-XX / H-X bomber soncepts

it wouldn't be the first time people got the designation wrong. or maybe h18 designation is right, but it relates to subsonic wing, not a supersonic design.

it makes more sense for china to speed up jh7 replacement than h6k replacement. thus, we could expect jh7 replacement first. maybe all those reports about jh7b were right, but they just got the designation wrong. maybe its not a plane that has anything to do with jh7, but a whole new design.

id put my money on a supersonic heavy striker, not a bomber. bomber itself may indeed be a flying wing and subsonic, but we may not see that in another decade or so.

Except JH-7's might be replaced by J-16s, and stealth isn't an absolute necessity for a strike platform, especially if there is also a push to develop strike UCAVs.
 

Totoro

Major
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Re: PLAAF new JH-XX / H-X bomber soncepts

radar stealth is just as necessary for strike platform as it is for fighter platforms. In some cases it's even more necessary. History of radar stealth suggests so - f117 (striker), b2 (bomber), f22 (fighter), f35 (equally striker and fighter)

In striker role, jh7 isn't really much worse than j16. While in some areas is does fall behind - no in flight refuelling (but china has no meaningful tanker fleet anyway and no perspective/desire to substantially increase it in the next decade or so), can't do self escorting as well as j16 (in reality no one ever does that, sends strikers on their own. there's always packages of strikers and fighter escorts. US does it, IAF does it, everyone does it that way)

jh7 aiframes are young. J16, when they start coming online in year or two, won't be replacing existing jh7. They will be replacing either j7 or q5. But franco russe says so far q5 regiments were replaced exclusively by jh7 and j7 regiments were replaced by su30. Since there were new jh7 seen at xian, its still in production. It seems most logical to assume jh7 production will go on and it will keep replacing remaining q5 regiments. At the same time, throughout this coming decade, j16 will be replacing j7 regiments (or possibly some oldest j8 regiment).

i simply don't see plaaf looking at j16 as jh7 replacement. It may see it as party taking over some of its duties, or better to phrase it - sharing some of its duties, but a proper jh7 replacement is going to have to come in a form of something else. In today's world a proper striker MUST be a plane with low radar cross section. Otherwise f35 wouldn't be the way it is. f117 wouldnt have been the way it was, etc.

strike ucavs will eventually come, for sure. in 10 or 15 years some first regiments may come online. But that's just part of the strike requirements. for real time target search and target assesment, as well as better reactions over enemy territory meaning better survivability, manned planes will still remain in action for some decades after that. unmanned option in a plane with a cockpit seems like a pretty decent idea, once one gets over a certain size treshold. It seems US will be going that route with their striker/bomber. If chinese striker is large enough, it may be worthwhile to go that route as well.

And jh7 replacemnt is definitely going to be larger than jh7. adding stealth, adding fuel to get that stealthy airframe and a big load of weapons 1500+ km away - that's going to be a pretty big plane. Perhaps some will not label it a bomber, but it will at the very least be bigger than f111/su24/su34, and perhaps by a considerable margin (50% or so).

what's the alternative? non stealthy j16 serving as main striker for another 30 or so years? Such a platform would get decimated in modern high threat enviroment. some large stealthy bomber to complement it and replace h6? Which will be expensive enough that less than 100 will probably be operational. That's really not nearly capable enough strike force for china's future air power.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
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Re: PLAAF new JH-XX / H-X bomber soncepts

F-22 was meant to be F-15 replacement, but high cost and vastly superior capability meant F-22 could virtually replace multiple F-15s at the expensive of sortie rate. But both aircraft were similar sized, with the same air to air mission and a similar combat range.
If H-18 is a replacement for JH-7, it's capability will far outstrip it, in terms of range especially. I believe J-16 and/or JH-7B will supersede PLAAF procurement of JH-7A and as new J-16s and JH-7bs replace older JH-7s, those older JH-7s will go to older Q-5 or J-7 regiments. I just can't see a JH-7 regiment being turned into a H-18 regiment.

However H-18 as a replacement for non K model H-6s (eg Gs or Ms) makes a lot of sense, as they will be similar in size, range, and intended role, ie a long range interdict or maritime strike aircraft. But obviously H-18 will hold far superior survivability.


You do need stealth to survive against a modern fleet air defense, however. Doing a pure speed run; the F-18s are capable of Mach 2 speeds if necessary, and their AEW&C craft can spot you from long range to enable interception.

Stealth alone is also not a good thing; if the sortie goes bad, you want the ability to abort and get out, and with supersonic interceptors held by carrier fleets, you're going to get shot down if the mission goes bad.

That's why stealth and speed are both necessities for a long range heavy striker.

Despite the advances in AEWC technology, stealth is not quite redundant yet (otherwise every country wouldn't be moving towards it). At the very least it may allow your plane to get within closer range of target to launch missiles closer, thus allowing for shorter reaction time.
Speed is necessary for the inevitable escape. Chances are once you've dropped your load you will be detected and IDed. CAP and SAMs will chase you like hell hounds. That's where supersonic dash comes into play. If you can turn tail quickly and reach Mach 2 and hold it, then no AMRAAM or SM-6 will be able to properly chase you down, assuming they get a positive lock in the first place. Pursuing fighters may true to continue lobbing missiles, but neither superbug or JSF can hold supersonic speeds for very long and indeed the former will be hindered at high speed due to external ordnance.
Optimally this striker should have supercruise capability between Mach 1 and 2, with a supersonic dash capability of Mach 2-3. But that's probably too much for a plane that size, so supersonic dash of Mach 2 will have to be enough.
 
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