One key prbm is tha lots of less educated guys want a job as a temporary conscript and get some qualification of military experience for their future career convenience. Of course conscripts are proved impotent in high-tech troops, that's a worldwide issue.:nono:
PLA training
- Thread starter bd popeye
- Start date
I've said this many times, but i quess I gotta do it one more time....Conscripts aren't anyway inferior to enlisted service mens. Coscription system doesen't automaticly mean the standart of the soldiers are somewhat lower. Like in chinese case, when the conscription time is two years, it's only down how to use that time. You can mess it up in profesional army as well, it's all down to the intensive level of the training. Even one year or half year conscription can do miracles if you use all the time to existing training. The refresment training is the tool to keep up the level of professionalism...
Here's some info on PLAN training for the Kilo subs:
"Realizing the training challenge for the Chinese crews, Russia, when negotiating the deal in 1994, proposed 18 months of training, a realistic simulator and associated base support infrastructure. In 1995, China actually funded one year of training for the first 877 crew in St. Petersburg, Russia, and a shorter training period for the second crew at the submarine base in Xiangshan.
<snip>
The 877s were followed in 1997 and 1998 by two of the latest 636 Kilos that had many of the same combat systems as 877, but the troublesome Type 2D-42 diesel generators were replaced by more complex turbocharged Type 4-2AA-42M diesel generators rated at 1,500 kilowatts each. Instead of 18 months of training for 636 submarines that Iran and India had, China reduced training to nine months. Only the officers for the two 636 crews were trained in St. Petersburg in 1997. The enlisted men were trained at the Xiangshan home port. The Chinese are blamed for the battery problems of Kilos, but other customers such as Iran and India have had similar problems. Increased reliability is achieved with batteries made in India and Britain."
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As for conscripts, like Gollevainen said, you could train conscripts well, or train volunteers badly. For an example, Taiwan has a conscripted force and its navy have had a lot of problems before. To remedy this situation they're very careful with integrating new systems now. Prior to accepting the Kidd class destroyer, 600 ROCN support crew (mechanics/etc) was sent to the US 18 months ahead. The training was so tough one sailor even comitted suicide from the stress:
Sailors proud to bring home Kidd-class destroyers
NATION'S DEFENSE: At a ceremony on Saturday, sailors involved in preparing the ships for duty spoke enthusiastically of their time in the US -- despite the hard work
By Rich Chang
STAFF REPORTER
Monday, Dec 19, 2005,Page 3
"I am very proud I spent my compulsory military service in a foreign country and to have worked for the delivery of the navy's most capable vessels," said a sailor from the naval team in charge of the delivery of four Kidd-class destroyers from the US.
Over a period of 18 months, a 600-member Taiwanese crew worked at a US shipyard in South Carolina in preparation for delivery of two of four Kidds -- now designated Keelung-class destroyers -- that Taiwan purchased from the US in 2001.
The four warships have required refurbishment and maintenance in the US before being delivered to Taiwan.
"I voluntarily prolonged my compulsory military term in order to join the delivery team. I am going to finish my military service, and I will have good memories about my naval life in the US," Lin Sin-jen (林新仁) told the Taipei Times at the commissioning ceremony for the two Kidd warships at the Keelung naval base on Saturday.
Lin said the delivery team had two major missions -- to refurbish the warships and learn to operate the vessels.
Taiwanese sailors hold up placards saying ``glory for the nation'' in Chinese in this photo taken on Oct. 29 when two decommissioned Kidd-class destroyers purchased by the government departed for Taiwan from Port Charleston, South Carolina.
"As a mechanic on the team, my job was to fix the warships, and as the US Navy merely offered some instructions, I would say most of the repairs were done by our team," Lin added.
"In order to bring forward the delivery [date] of the vessels, every day was a busy one for us, and we were happy when we had time off. We usually visited the downtown area near the shipyard when we had one day off, but the navy also arranged for us to take trips to Niagara Falls and Disneyland in Orlando," Lin added.
"The most exciting [trips] were when the navy took us to professional hockey games and Major League Baseball games," Lin said.
Lin added that most of the sailors had missed home, but were able to call their families in Taiwan, and ate Chinese food to ease some of the homesickness.
Another soldier, Chen Chun-hung (陳俊宏) told the Taipei Times about the naval training they received in the US.
"We underwent serious training by the US Navy to operate the warships. Because most of the team did not speak English and were unfamiliar with a number of the training courses, we felt a lot of pressure at the beginning, but things gradually got better," Chen said.
During the training, the navy sent back a small number of sailors who were unable to meet the requirements.
However, a tragedy occurred during the very complicated and stressful delivery work. One sailor, Wu Chin-chung (吳進忠), hanged himself aboard one of the destroyers in January. He left an e-mail to his family complaining about his extremely heavy workload, long working hours and his superiors' frequent criticisms.
Naval officials said Wu's case was an exception.
A squadron commander of the Kidd-class destroyer fleet, Rear Admiral Pu Che-chun (蒲澤春), who was in charge of the evaluation and delivery of the destroyers, told reporters that the warships had become rusty after 18 years of service the US Navy, after which they were mothballed and sat for six years, but that after an 18-month effort, the first two Kidd-class destroyers commissioned on Saturday looked like new vessels.
"Some US naval officials doubted that Taiwan's navy would be able to efficiently operate advanced warships such as the Kidd-class warships. After a number of tests by the US Navy, they gave Taiwan's navy a high evaluation," Pu said.
"Some said the delivery of the Kidd warships was a test of whether Taiwan's Navy was able to operate the US' most advanced AEGIS-equipped ships, and the US Navy should have a positive answer," Pu added.
Pu said the new vessels will significantly boost the navy's air defense and anti-submarine warfare capabilities, and also help raise joint-combat capabilities.
In a computerized simulation during the annual Han Kuang military exercises earlier this year, the two destroyers successfully attracting most of the enemy fire.
"Realizing the training challenge for the Chinese crews, Russia, when negotiating the deal in 1994, proposed 18 months of training, a realistic simulator and associated base support infrastructure. In 1995, China actually funded one year of training for the first 877 crew in St. Petersburg, Russia, and a shorter training period for the second crew at the submarine base in Xiangshan.
<snip>
The 877s were followed in 1997 and 1998 by two of the latest 636 Kilos that had many of the same combat systems as 877, but the troublesome Type 2D-42 diesel generators were replaced by more complex turbocharged Type 4-2AA-42M diesel generators rated at 1,500 kilowatts each. Instead of 18 months of training for 636 submarines that Iran and India had, China reduced training to nine months. Only the officers for the two 636 crews were trained in St. Petersburg in 1997. The enlisted men were trained at the Xiangshan home port. The Chinese are blamed for the battery problems of Kilos, but other customers such as Iran and India have had similar problems. Increased reliability is achieved with batteries made in India and Britain."
=====
As for conscripts, like Gollevainen said, you could train conscripts well, or train volunteers badly. For an example, Taiwan has a conscripted force and its navy have had a lot of problems before. To remedy this situation they're very careful with integrating new systems now. Prior to accepting the Kidd class destroyer, 600 ROCN support crew (mechanics/etc) was sent to the US 18 months ahead. The training was so tough one sailor even comitted suicide from the stress:
Sailors proud to bring home Kidd-class destroyers
NATION'S DEFENSE: At a ceremony on Saturday, sailors involved in preparing the ships for duty spoke enthusiastically of their time in the US -- despite the hard work
By Rich Chang
STAFF REPORTER
Monday, Dec 19, 2005,Page 3
"I am very proud I spent my compulsory military service in a foreign country and to have worked for the delivery of the navy's most capable vessels," said a sailor from the naval team in charge of the delivery of four Kidd-class destroyers from the US.
Over a period of 18 months, a 600-member Taiwanese crew worked at a US shipyard in South Carolina in preparation for delivery of two of four Kidds -- now designated Keelung-class destroyers -- that Taiwan purchased from the US in 2001.
The four warships have required refurbishment and maintenance in the US before being delivered to Taiwan.
"I voluntarily prolonged my compulsory military term in order to join the delivery team. I am going to finish my military service, and I will have good memories about my naval life in the US," Lin Sin-jen (林新仁) told the Taipei Times at the commissioning ceremony for the two Kidd warships at the Keelung naval base on Saturday.
Lin said the delivery team had two major missions -- to refurbish the warships and learn to operate the vessels.
Taiwanese sailors hold up placards saying ``glory for the nation'' in Chinese in this photo taken on Oct. 29 when two decommissioned Kidd-class destroyers purchased by the government departed for Taiwan from Port Charleston, South Carolina.
"As a mechanic on the team, my job was to fix the warships, and as the US Navy merely offered some instructions, I would say most of the repairs were done by our team," Lin added.
"In order to bring forward the delivery [date] of the vessels, every day was a busy one for us, and we were happy when we had time off. We usually visited the downtown area near the shipyard when we had one day off, but the navy also arranged for us to take trips to Niagara Falls and Disneyland in Orlando," Lin added.
"The most exciting [trips] were when the navy took us to professional hockey games and Major League Baseball games," Lin said.
Lin added that most of the sailors had missed home, but were able to call their families in Taiwan, and ate Chinese food to ease some of the homesickness.
Another soldier, Chen Chun-hung (陳俊宏) told the Taipei Times about the naval training they received in the US.
"We underwent serious training by the US Navy to operate the warships. Because most of the team did not speak English and were unfamiliar with a number of the training courses, we felt a lot of pressure at the beginning, but things gradually got better," Chen said.
During the training, the navy sent back a small number of sailors who were unable to meet the requirements.
However, a tragedy occurred during the very complicated and stressful delivery work. One sailor, Wu Chin-chung (吳進忠), hanged himself aboard one of the destroyers in January. He left an e-mail to his family complaining about his extremely heavy workload, long working hours and his superiors' frequent criticisms.
Naval officials said Wu's case was an exception.
A squadron commander of the Kidd-class destroyer fleet, Rear Admiral Pu Che-chun (蒲澤春), who was in charge of the evaluation and delivery of the destroyers, told reporters that the warships had become rusty after 18 years of service the US Navy, after which they were mothballed and sat for six years, but that after an 18-month effort, the first two Kidd-class destroyers commissioned on Saturday looked like new vessels.
"Some US naval officials doubted that Taiwan's navy would be able to efficiently operate advanced warships such as the Kidd-class warships. After a number of tests by the US Navy, they gave Taiwan's navy a high evaluation," Pu said.
"Some said the delivery of the Kidd warships was a test of whether Taiwan's Navy was able to operate the US' most advanced AEGIS-equipped ships, and the US Navy should have a positive answer," Pu added.
Pu said the new vessels will significantly boost the navy's air defense and anti-submarine warfare capabilities, and also help raise joint-combat capabilities.
In a computerized simulation during the annual Han Kuang military exercises earlier this year, the two destroyers successfully attracting most of the enemy fire.
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well finnish army send personel to Soviet union to train with them, everytime we purchased something nice form there...its a standard proceedure for many nations. Thougth those who were sended were profesionals and officers. But conscription works well in ground forces but has its limitations in navy and air force, and as im not familar with these fields service things, i cannot say much. Popeye has given good insigth as a former sailor.
A history channel documentary following pla recruits and recon units (3 years of military experience to try out). The majority of army recruits come from poor rural backgrounds. Many recruits say that the food they get in the army is much better in both quality and quantity compared to back home. City folks who are generally better off have a preference to join the PAP, air force, and navy.
vesicles
Colonel
A nice documentary from the History channel. Thanks for posting it.
Just a few comments on the "comments above". It's unfortunate that, out of almost 50 minutes of the whole documentary, which is packed with important new info, the only information that you thought important enough to comment was the food. And the actual segment about the food in the military lasted only less than 10 seconds in the show.
It's not that "many recruits" who have said anything about the food. Only one new recruit commented on it.
Nowhere in the show, they commented anything about "majority of army recruits come from poor rural backgrounds"...
Nowhere in the show, they commented anything about "City folks who are generally better off have a preference to join the PAP, air force, and navy"...
Preference to join the air force or navy by those who are better qualified I can see. However I always had the impression that the PAP is the poor cousin of the PLA army, besides from the different internal security/policing mission, so why would the better off prefer to join the PAP? Could the PAP be less strict, maybe more corrupt, and its professional life less harsh so the less disciplined, which may correlate with the generally better off, prefer to join the PAP rather than the PLA army?
We're all different I guess. If a documentary (especially a military one) starts talking about food, my attention is drawn to it like nothing else in the documentary matters. It's the same for me during movies. Some of my favorite parts are the scenes that involve food, especially good food.
