PLA in Pakistan

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Roger604

Roger604

Senior Member
Right now China is plying the South East Asian countries with money and favors to maintain a stable supply route through Malacca Straits. When China is able to load oil from tankers in Gwadar onto rail links going to Kashgar, China, it can instead divert all those funds to Pakistan.

Pakistan (at least Punjab state) will transform into a Singapore or Kuwait -- a wealthy state just by virtue of natural endowment or strategic location. If Pakistan wants to remain a secular state, bringing in Chinese help to secure internal order and a massive injection of economic development is the best way.

It would be amusing if China's rebuilding of Pakistan and North Korea becomes analogous to the US-assisted rebuilding of Western Europe and rebuilding of Japan after WW2.
 
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peace13

Just Hatched
Registered Member
but that will only be sucessful if peace prevails in pakistan, US take away her forces from Afghanistan and political leaders of pakistan become sincere to the survival of this state.
 
B

bingo

Junior Member
peace13 said:
but that will only be sucessful if peace prevails in pakistan, US take away her forces from Afghanistan and political leaders of pakistan become sincere to the survival of this state.
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It's not as simple as this.

What's the magic that's going to happen, if hypothetically, NATO forces move out of Afghanistan immediately ??

It's actually good for Pakistan that US finances the cost of funding the War on Terror. (In any case, that brings lots of free F-16s and naval ships :) ).

However, the question of Pak economy is altogether different. And MUCH MORE IMPORTANT.

If China wants to help ... it has to be via TRADE .. not AID.

The problem is China does not want to buy anything but raw materials from Pakistan (e.g. raw cotton exports).

And inspite of these raw material exports, Pak runs huge trade deficit with China ... which drains it Forex reserves. Same problem which India faces in it's trade with China.

China can never be market for Pakistani Textiles ... unlike Europe or USA.

The trade with US / Europe gives Pak it's surplus dollars .. to buy oil.

Remittances from Europe / US drive the Pak economy ... like nothing else.

If China really wants to help Pak economy, the moot question is:

So, what can China buy from Pakistan ... (other than raw materials) ?

Like all other power economies -- Exports is the only way, for Pakistan to achieve a 10% like growth rate.

These Super Exports have always gone to USA (and somewhat to Europe), in all of known history.

Ditto .. for North Korea. It's not Marshall plans which will lift Pak or North Korea out of their current economic miseries.

It's TRADE ... --> EXPORTS. The question is who's going to buy Pakistani or North Korean manufactures in MASSIVE QUANTITIES.

Can it be China ?

Ok - no. Probably all of us will agree.

Second question, how can China help Pakistan boost it's exports to US or Europe ?

- can Chinese companies use the huge and cheap labour in Pakistan to set huge factories for toys, shoes or glassware in Karachi. And then export these to USA / Europe. Something like a massive FDI into Pakistani Export oriented industries ?

It's this which really counts. The issue of building roads / railways in largely unpopulated Gilgit-Balistan makes strategic sense .. not much economic sense.

As always .... It's the economy, stupid.
 
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siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
One final nail in the coffin for this preposterous rumor. This time it is from New York Times. Kudos to Xinhui of the China Defence Blog for bringing it to my attention on the Pakistan Defence Forum. I think this article is notable for its entertainment value since Mr. Harrison, the one responsible for the editorial, wrote a response to the New York Times apology. Enjoy! :D

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China in Pakistan

Selig S. Harrison’s article “China’s discreet hold on Pakistan’s Northern Borderlands” (Views, Aug. 27) has no basis in fact.

The facts are: The Karakoram Highway, which connects China’s Xinjiang region with Pakistan’s Gilgit-Baltistan region, was constructed by Chinese and Pakistani engineers over a long period of time and completed in 1986. This is a historical fact. Parts of the highway, the highest paved international road, were destroyed, as was most of Pakistan’s infrastructure, by the recent deadly floods. Landslides at Attabad in the Hunza Valley cut off all links to Gilgit-Baltistan, making it difficult for the government to ensure timely provision of the people’s needs.

Pakistan therefore sought urgent help from friendly countries, including China, whose engineers have the necessary experience, to repair the damage on this critically important highway. But Mr. Harrison chose to describe Chinese engineers as army troops. Why he has tried to mislead your readers, is something he must explain.

Mian Jahangir Iqbal,New York Press Counselor Permanent mission of Pakistan to the United Nations

Selig S. Harrison responds

Western and regional intelligence sources say that there has been an influx of construction, engineering and communication units of the People’s Liberation Army into Gilgit-Baltistan, under the command of the Xinjiang military district, totaling at least 7,000 military personnel. This is confirmed by local political groups opposed to both Pakistani military rule and to the Chinese influx whose credibility is verified by Pakistani journalists, such as the Balawaristan National Front, the Gilgit-Baltistan Democratic Alliance, the All-Party National Alliance and the Gilgit-Baltistan Thinkers Forum.

In addition, several thousand P.L.A. troops are said to be stationed in the Khunjerab Pass on the Xinjiang border to protect Karakoram Highway construction crews, with ready access to Gilgit-Baltistan.

True, the Chinese in Gilgit-Baltistan are not combat soldiers, and their work on flood relief and economic development has positive benefits. But the impact of such a large foreign presence in a thinly populated, undeveloped region has been profound. With large amounts of money to dispense for subcontracts and support services, P.L.A. officers have become powerful, striking alliances with Pakistan-sponsored local functionaries, Pakistani bureaucrats and Pakistani businessmen who are profiting from more than 200 mining and other Chinese-run projects.

To local political activists, this adds up to a creeping process of de facto Chinese control over a region where Islamabad claims nominal authority but lacks the infrastructure to exercise it.
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Just loves how he tries to sneak in a bit of anti-Chinese propaganda while apologizing for his screw ups.
 
A

airsuperiority

Captain
Gotta enjoy how his ignorance had come back to slapping him in the face, yet he still tries to defend his sorryass bird brain. I generally hate these mindfucks with a passion, but this time watching him get embarrassed internationally by the governments is definitely heartwarming. It's nice to see such a stir. For ignorance and bias like that, one of the best punishments would be damage to his credibility as a journalist. These people have no fking idea what they write carries a lot of responsibilities at hand.
 
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rhino123

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
I really hate those irresponsible people, especially those that could influence the mind of the generally simple publics to shoot their mouth off on some non-existence threat, just to give their column a boost in readership.

However, no matter how you hate this type of slimes... it is also amazing to see how many people actually believed in all those lies without so much as questioning the validity of the claims.

It is something like, "This was forecasted in the newspaper, magazine or TV, it must be real." type of sentiment... which is actually quite stupid and seriously immature. But (sigh)... there are so many idiots out there.
 
plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Mass media, the only 'profession' without a formal, independent oversight and disiplinary governing body.

Beyond a response, not even a clear acknowledgement he was in the wrong never mind an actual appology, what other consequences does he face? Had this been any serious profession like legal, medicalor even accountancy, such a massive public f*ck up and such a non repentant attitude would have resulted in serious displinary proceedings, with the possibility of them being excluded from the profession altogether. No such chance here.

Is it then any wonder that we get so many complete bs stories like this one?
 
siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
plawolf said:
Mass media, the only 'profession' without a formal, independent oversight and disiplinary governing body.

Beyond a response, not even a clear acknowledgement he was in the wrong never mind an actual appology, what other consequences does he face? Had this been any serious profession like legal, medicalor even accountancy, such a massive public f*ck up and such a non repentant attitude would have resulted in serious displinary proceedings, with the possibility of them being excluded from the profession altogether. No such chance here.

Is it then any wonder that we get so many complete bs stories like this one?
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Irresponsible journalism led to the Spanish-American War. Why do I get the feeling that history is going to repeat itself one day?
 
L

Lezt

Junior Member
siegecrossbow said:
Irresponsible journalism led to the Spanish-American War. Why do I get the feeling that history is going to repeat itself one day?
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Siege,

isn't this more directly true for the sinking of the Cheonan? The media had always been a major cause of war.

think about how many crusades were started by the media outlet of the time; churches; kept spinning stories of Muslim rape and desiccation of Christians? maybe not entirely, but sufficiently a factor.

Think about Hitler's propaganda of reuniting the fatherland and the war on Poland. media.
 
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