PLA in Pakistan

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bingo

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China's Discreet Hold on Pakistan's Northern BorderlandsBy SELIG S. HARRISON

While the world focuses on the flood-ravaged Indus River valley, a quiet geopolitical crisis is unfolding in the Himalayan borderlands of northern Pakistan, where Islamabad is handing over de facto control of the strategic Gilgit-Baltistan region in the northwest corner of disputed Kashmir to China.

The entire Pakistan-occupied western portion of Kashmir stretching from Gilgit in the north to Azad (Free) Kashmir in the south is closed to the world, in contrast to the media access that India permits in the eastern part, where it is combating a Pakistan-backed insurgency. But reports from a variety of foreign intelligence sources, Pakistani journalists and Pakistani human rights workers reveal two important new developments in Gilgit-Baltistan: a simmering rebellion against Pakistani rule and the influx of an estimated 7,000 to 11,000 soldiers of the People’s Liberation Army.
China wants a grip on the region to assure unfettered road and rail access to the Gulf through Pakistan. It takes 16 to 25 days for Chinese oil tankers to reach the Gulf. When high-speed rail and road links through Gilgit and Baltistan are completed, China will be able to transport cargo from Eastern China to the new Chinese-built Pakistani naval bases at Gwadar, Pasni and Ormara, just east of the Gulf, within 48 hours.

Many of the P.L.A. soldiers entering Gilgit-Baltistan are expected to work on the railroad. Some are extending the Karakoram Highway, built to link China’s Sinkiang Province with Pakistan. Others are working on dams, expressways and other projects.

Mystery surrounds the construction of 22 tunnels in secret locations where Pakistanis are barred. Tunnels would be necessary for a projected gas pipeline from Iran to China that would cross the Himalayas through Gilgit. But they could also be used for missile storage sites.

Until recently, the P.L.A. construction crews lived in temporary encampments and went home after completing their assignments. Now they are building big residential enclaves clearly designed for a long-term presence.

What is happening in the region matters to Washington for two reasons. Coupled with its support for the Taliban, Islamabad’s collusion in facilitating China’s access to the Gulf makes clear that Pakistan is not a U.S. “ally.” Equally important, the nascent revolt in the Gilgit-Baltistan region is a reminder that Kashmiri demands for autonomy on both sides of the cease-fire line would have to be addressed in a settlement.

Media attention has exposed the repression of the insurgency in the Indian-ruled Kashmir Valley. But if reporters could get into the Gilgit-Baltistan region and Azad Kashmir, they would find widespread, brutally-suppressed local movements for democratic rights and regional autonomy.

When the British partitioned South Asia in 1947, the maharajah who ruled Kashmir, including Gilgit and Baltistan, acceded to India. This set off intermittent conflict that ended with Indian control of the Kashmir Valley, the establishment of Pakistan-sponsored Free Kashmir in western Kashmir, and Pakistan’s occupation of Gilgit and Baltistan, where Sunni jihadi groups allied with the Pakistan Army have systematically terrorized the local Shiite Muslims.

Gilgit and Baltistan are in effect under military rule. Democratic activists there want a legislature and other institutions without restrictions like the ones imposed on Free Kashmir, where the elected legislature controls only 4 out of 56 subjects covered in the state constitution. The rest are under the jurisdiction of a “Kashmir Council” appointed by the president of Pakistan.

India gives more power to the state government in Srinagar; elections there are widely regarded as fair, and open discussion of demands for autonomy is permitted. But the Pakistan-abetted insurgency in the Kashmir Valley has added to tensions between Indian occupation forces and an assertive population seeking greater of local autonomy.

The United States is uniquely situated to play a moderating role in Kashmir, given its growing economic and military ties with India and Pakistan’s aid dependence on Washington. Such a role should be limited to quiet diplomacy. Washington should press New Delhi to resume autonomy negotiations with Kashmiri separatists. Success would put pressure on Islamabad for comparable concessions in Free Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan. In Pakistan, Washington should focus on getting Islamabad to stop aiding the insurgency in the Kashmir Valley and to give New Delhi a formal commitment that it will not annex Gilgit and Baltistan.

Precisely because the Gilgit-Baltistan region is so important to China, the United States, India and Pakistan should work together to make sure that it is not overwhelmed, like Tibet, by the Chinese behemoth.


Selig S. Harrison is director of the Asia Program at the Center for International Policy and a former South Asia bureau chief of The Washington Post.
 
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siegecrossbow

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Seen on New York Times:

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China's Discreet Hold on Pakistan's Northern BorderlandsBy SELIG S. HARRISON

While the world focuses on the flood-ravaged Indus River valley, a quiet geopolitical crisis is unfolding in the Himalayan borderlands of northern Pakistan, where Islamabad is handing over de facto control of the strategic Gilgit-Baltistan region in the northwest corner of disputed Kashmir to China.

The entire Pakistan-occupied western portion of Kashmir stretching from Gilgit in the north to Azad (Free) Kashmir in the south is closed to the world, in contrast to the media access that India permits in the eastern part, where it is combating a Pakistan-backed insurgency. But reports from a variety of foreign intelligence sources, Pakistani journalists and Pakistani human rights workers reveal two important new developments in Gilgit-Baltistan: a simmering rebellion against Pakistani rule and the influx of an estimated 7,000 to 11,000 soldiers of the People’s Liberation Army.

China wants a grip on the region to assure unfettered road and rail access to the Gulf through Pakistan. It takes 16 to 25 days for Chinese oil tankers to reach the Gulf. When high-speed rail and road links through Gilgit and Baltistan are completed, China will be able to transport cargo from Eastern China to the new Chinese-built Pakistani naval bases at Gwadar, Pasni and Ormara, just east of the Gulf, within 48 hours.

Many of the P.L.A. soldiers entering Gilgit-Baltistan are expected to work on the railroad. Some are extending the Karakoram Highway, built to link China’s Sinkiang Province with Pakistan. Others are working on dams, expressways and other projects.

Mystery surrounds the construction of 22 tunnels in secret locations where Pakistanis are barred. Tunnels would be necessary for a projected gas pipeline from Iran to China that would cross the Himalayas through Gilgit. But they could also be used for missile storage sites.

Until recently, the P.L.A. construction crews lived in temporary encampments and went home after completing their assignments. Now they are building big residential enclaves clearly designed for a long-term presence.

What is happening in the region matters to Washington for two reasons. Coupled with its support for the Taliban, Islamabad’s collusion in facilitating China’s access to the Gulf makes clear that Pakistan is not a U.S. “ally.” Equally important, the nascent revolt in the Gilgit-Baltistan region is a reminder that Kashmiri demands for autonomy on both sides of the cease-fire line would have to be addressed in a settlement.

Media attention has exposed the repression of the insurgency in the Indian-ruled Kashmir Valley. But if reporters could get into the Gilgit-Baltistan region and Azad Kashmir, they would find widespread, brutally-suppressed local movements for democratic rights and regional autonomy.

When the British partitioned South Asia in 1947, the maharajah who ruled Kashmir, including Gilgit and Baltistan, acceded to India. This set off intermittent conflict that ended with Indian control of the Kashmir Valley, the establishment of Pakistan-sponsored Free Kashmir in western Kashmir, and Pakistan’s occupation of Gilgit and Baltistan, where Sunni jihadi groups allied with the Pakistan Army have systematically terrorized the local Shiite Muslims.

Gilgit and Baltistan are in effect under military rule. Democratic activists there want a legislature and other institutions without restrictions like the ones imposed on Free Kashmir, where the elected legislature controls only 4 out of 56 subjects covered in the state constitution. The rest are under the jurisdiction of a “Kashmir Council” appointed by the president of Pakistan.

India gives more power to the state government in Srinagar; elections there are widely regarded as fair, and open discussion of demands for autonomy is permitted. But the Pakistan-abetted insurgency in the Kashmir Valley has added to tensions between Indian occupation forces and an assertive population seeking greater of local autonomy.

The United States is uniquely situated to play a moderating role in Kashmir, given its growing economic and military ties with India and Pakistan’s aid dependence on Washington. Such a role should be limited to quiet diplomacy. Washington should press New Delhi to resume autonomy negotiations with Kashmiri separatists. Success would put pressure on Islamabad for comparable concessions in Free Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan. In Pakistan, Washington should focus on getting Islamabad to stop aiding the insurgency in the Kashmir Valley and to give New Delhi a formal commitment that it will not annex Gilgit and Baltistan.

Precisely because the Gilgit-Baltistan region is so important to China, the United States, India and Pakistan should work together to make sure that it is not overwhelmed, like Tibet, by the Chinese behemoth.


Selig S. Harrison is director of the Asia Program at the Center for International Policy and a former South Asia bureau chief of The Washington Post.

Is it just me or does every one smell the strong "China threat" sentiment emanating from this editorial? I think it is a bit ridiculous for the author to say that China will "overwhelm" South Asia when China is in fact assisting Pakistan with various infrastructures. Yellow journalism at its worst.
 
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Student0001

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@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ deleted by popeye
Chinese Student

The discussion of the events in Tiananmen Square on 04.06.1989 are not to be discussed in this forum. Read the forum rules! And your post is way off topic.

FORUM RULES: Things to Remember Before Posting, important, please read!

I) The discussion of Tiananmen Square & Tibet is forbidden. and if ypou post in Chinese offer an translation!
 
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Schumacher

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Hmm, CIA drones are dropping bombs on Pakistani villages, oops I mean 'militants hideouts' on a daily basis, but NYT prefers to talk of 'threats' to Pakistan from Chinese building roads and tunnels ?:confused:
 

bingo

Junior Member
The significance of this "news", if true, is much larger.

This will be the first time that PLA would have set foot on foreign lands ... after a long time (more than 30 years -- Last time was in 1979, when PLA was seen in Vietnam).

However, haste is not good. I am waiting for a formal confirmation from the governments of Pakistan and / or China.

Second thing is that does PLA come at the invitation of Pakistan ... since these areas are controlled by Pakistan (but actually a part of Kashmir and claimed by both India and Pakistan).

This could be the reason there could be a secret agreement which has not been announced (so far, atleast).
 
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siegecrossbow

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The significance of this "news", if true, is much larger.

This will be the first time that PLA would have set foot on foreign lands ... after a long time (more than 20 years -- Last time was in 1979, when PLA was seen in Vietnam).

However, haste is not good. I am waiting for a formal confirmation from the governments of Pakistan and / or China.

Second thing is that does PLA come at the invitation of Pakistan ... since these areas are controlled by Pakistan (but actually a part of Kashmir and claimed by both India and Pakistan).

This could be the reason there could be a secret agreement which has not been announced (so far, atleast).

I agree with you that we probably need more time to see whether there is validity to the news. The fact that a Western editorial writer has info. that hasn't been leaked by either the Chinese or Pakistani government is a bit suspicious.

Does this guy have proof for some of the things that he is claiming, like the Pakistani government's support for the Taliban?
 

bingo

Junior Member
The only news available (in English) is that Foreign Ministry spokesman of India did make a comment, on this "news".

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Right now the "news" has only generated interest. And the entire reason is that NYTimes has lent it's name to the news.

And second thing is that it was considered "plausible" enough to warrant a comment from Indian Foreign Ministry.


Personally, I don't expect a quick comment from Chinese Foreign Ministry on this. Though some foreign journalist could ask a question on this.

However, opposition parties in Pakistan could raise and demand a confirmation or denial from Govt of Pakistan.

It is actually becoming a fact that Pakistan is finding it difficult to exercise control over these areas.
 

Baibar of Jalat

Junior Member
I am planning to go to Gilgit in a month, hopefully. If I see some snickering Chinesemen, I will tell you guys.

On a serious side there are military regions in Gilgit-Balistan because huge number of troops are deployed on border, so why is it suprising there are parts of region off limits?

Secondly, google tourism in "Northern Areas of Pakistan", recently renamed Gilgit-Balistan. You will see western tourists frequently go there, even recently they were evacuated after bridges were destroyed by floods. Thats why I am not sure if I am going because of road damage.

Thirdly, seems like an attempt to divert attention from protests in Indian occupied Kashmir, by saying there is a widescale rebellion and oppression in Gilgit and Balistan. I wonder who hates Pakstan and China.
Siegecrossbow

Does this guy have proof for some of the things that he is claiming, like the Pakistani government's support for the Taliban?

Apparently some ISI (pak intel) agent anoymonously admitted that ISI and army arrested Taliban second in command to prevent peace talks. Also NYT sources at same time say ISI controls Taliban war council, but ironically it needs to arrest its members to stop them from Talking to Nato;) I would assume a simple command would work. ISI are so clever to outwit the CIA ;) because they dont have a clue.
 

siegecrossbow

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I am planning to go to Gilgit in a month, hopefully. If I see some snickering Chinesemen, I will tell you guys.

On a serious side there are military regions in Gilgit-Balistan because huge number of troops are deployed on border, so why is it suprising there are parts of region off limits?

Secondly, google tourism in "Northern Areas of Pakistan", recently renamed Gilgit-Balistan. You will see western tourists frequently go there, even recently they were evacuated after bridges were destroyed by floods. Thats why I am not sure if I am going because of road damage.

Thirdly, seems like an attempt to divert attention from protests in Indian occupied Kashmir, by saying there is a widescale rebellion and oppression in Gilgit and Balistan. I wonder who hates Pakstan and China.


Apparently some ISI (pak intel) agent anoymonously admitted that ISI and army arrested Taliban second in command to prevent peace talks. Also NYT sources at same time say ISI controls Taliban war council, but ironically it needs to arrest its members to stop them from Talking to Nato;) I would assume a simple command would work. ISI are so clever to outwit the CIA ;) because they dont have a clue.

Nice to see a Pakistani friend giving some insight on this. Not to derail the thread but I take it that you visit the pakistan defence forum too? This particular issue has been debated to death on that forum when it was brought up.
 

Baibar of Jalat

Junior Member
Nice to see a Pakistani friend giving some insight on this
. Not to derail the thread but I take it that you visit the pakistan defence forum too? This particular issue has been debated to death on that forum when it was brought up.

I am only a member of one Pak defence forum
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, but have not contributed on topic. I have not seen the debate on PLA troops. Been away from laptop since Friday, just back.

I just googled Gilgit to see if major roads and bridges been repaired, it is dominated by Indian papers carrying this story.

There are alot of Chinese companies working in Pakistan, especially in Northern Pakistan, it would be better if national companies did the road and railway buiding activity. It is very unlikely they are Chinese military personal making roads.

LonelyPlanet travel guide does not cite any government imposed restrictions in travelling to Azad Kashmir and Gilgit Balistan where PLA troops are supposedly based

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The only overland route to/from China is the KKH, over the 4730m Khunjerab Pass. The pass is open to foreigners from 1 May to 15 November, unless snow closes it sooner.
Northern Areas Transportation Company (Natco) and PTDC (Pakistan Tourism Development Corporation) vehicles go to the Chinese post at Tashkurgan (Rs 1500), with Chinese buses carrying on to Kashgar (Y62). Bus travellers from China ride a Chinese bus from Kashgar (Y270) to the Pakistan customs and immigration post at Afiyatabad (New Sost). The trip takes two days, with an overnight stop at Tashkurgan. You can also hire a minibus or 4WD from Afiyatabad to Tashkurgan or from Kashgar to Afiyatabad. Also available is a 14-hour, nonstop bus (Chinese and Natco) that runs between Gilgit and Kashgar. This is of no interest to travellers wishing to see the best of Northern Pakistan, but it may be of use for the time-limited traveller retracing their tracks.

Customs and immigration at Afiyatabad is open daily from 8.30am to 11am for China-bound travellers and until 5pm for Pakistan-bound travellers. You must have a valid China visa to enter China – they are not issued at the border. You must have a visa to enter Pakistan.
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