People excited for successful launching of Shenzhou-6

akinkhoo said:

china space program has close to no budget compare to the USA and RUSSIA. it is virtually there just for show and never any commitment.

from past history, space program are only useful if maintainable. NASA when 40 years backward after the failure of maintaining the space shuttle. the russian energia (the only superbooster available) is also dysfunctional. so having the rocket tech is useless if you cannot maintain and use it.

same goes for space station; the ISS is in worst state than MIR was, without the large resupply from space shuttle. parts are abandon as there is no shuttle to carry them up and russian rockets can't fit them. the russian are going back to space tourist then sending scientist. so there is almost no development on ISS, looking more like a ultraexpensive clubhouse by the days. :nana:

as for NASA's new spacecraft: CEV is very similiar to the apollo but uses solar panel like the soyuz/shenzhou. so basically, everyone is back to using spacecraft based on1960s concept! :roll:

basically the space race is over and it has been in decline. china will drag the manned development as long as possible as the competition is going nowhere with it for the last 40 years. :coffee: space age spy technology is most useful for china than manned goals.

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Actually I just some think tank guy being interviewed on TV say that China now spends more than Russia on its space program.

I think China has made great achievments with its budget, and I see no reason to assume the chinese space program is just for show and 'no committment'. In my eyes, deciding to send humans into space in the early 90's and having achieved two successful manned flights by 2005 with many more (and more complex) planned is nothing but pure committment.

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they have been working on it since 1970s. yes the CNSA is committed, just like NASA. but it is the funding that decides how much is done. my language was directed at CCP for underfunding this program and they funded it minimally just to show they have a manned program. can anyone dig out the budget of the chinese manned space program; that is it around 2 billion?

the achievments are great, but i don't feel CCP should be credited for something they are not willing to pay for..

3. ISS is not in worse state than MIR was. MIR suffered an on board fire and a collision with a resupply vehicle. The ISS has minor maintenance problems--so no comparison if you ask me.

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yes you are right, but the ISS is less capable then the MIR is with only 1 lab compare to 3 functioning and working ones. i was thinking capability and did not write properly, sorry. but my point was there is no major improvement in capability from doing the latest space station program.

the japanese and european lab are ready but how they are going up will be an interesting problem to watch. anyone guesses...

4. As for the CEV being 60s tech, well not quite. The CEV capsule concept is based on the same physics as the 60's Apollo capsule, and its mission (manned moon and mars missions) does not require any type of lifting body design, whereas the space shuttle was designed to carry large objects to and from orbit and be reusable.

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well it is 60s tech, because the required technology were already prefected back then. rendevous, docking, descent and accent, all pretty much the same technique were used. i was hoping they would go with the space tug system (STS) which would allow a more reusable and sutainable system. in the end the CEV prove to be as unreusable as the apollo!

i fear the apollo-like mission profile, show they don't have much intend to stay, it is only the duration that has be lengthen, the reusablity will make the cost too high to maintain a base. maybe they are aiming for mars; if so moonbase will be unlikely.

It is time to move beyond a manned vehicle for delivering payloads into LEO. That is a mission easily done with conventional launchers.

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yes, but there was already such capability in the 60s, so it was a step backward which show it was a wrong move. the spaceshuttle did little because it took away NASA's superlift capability away. in fact the new lifter for the moon mission has lesser power than the saturnV and requires 2 launches. a mission profile the russian had developed in the 60s for their moon race bid! talk about irony for the russian.

just my thought. i am just looking from a very long term view... as space program tend to die down very quickly as seen with the ISS...

Actually I just some think tank guy being interviewed on TV say that China now spends more than Russia on its space program.

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the Russian has to singlehandedly fund the entire ISS operations since the shuttle grounding as the US has a law against paying russia for tech services. putin reallocate additional money for the space program saying they would keep the ISS afloat even if they have to do it themselve. only recently did the law change to allow space services and allow NASA to pay russia for ferrying their crew again. but many flights with US equipment and astronaut had been done for free.

don't you hate doing business with your formal enemy? very political...

I saw on "News Hours With Jim Lehrer" that most Chinese wasn't excited at the launch of the shuttle. They said that the space program was designed to shift the attention of the Chinese people from the country's oppressive political problems. It was a commie trick. This obviously wasn't true after reading this post. But any of you living in China want to give me some real answers.

patriot said:

I saw on "News Hours With Jim Lehrer" that most Chinese wasn't excited at the launch of the shuttle. They said that the space program was designed to shift the attention of the Chinese people from the country's oppressive political problems. It was a commie trick. This obviously wasn't true after reading this post. But any of you living in China want to give me some real answers.

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Yeah you know, all the people in the world are on their knees begging for Hollywood to tell them what to think and how to dress and who is "cool". If only those darned tyrants ruling over these people could be overthrown, the world would be happy slaves to American cultural imperialism.

I've spoken to lots of mainland Chinese, and they are very excited. People are optimistic about the future of the country. Of course, these are city people so it might be different in the countryside.

Well, an American (not being stereotypical or anything)'s words on what the Chinese peoples think obviously is not very valid when compared to a Chinese who's living in mainland China's opinion. Many of my relatives in China watched the launch live (I did too!). So it is a big deal, and a great source of nationalism. I can't imagine any Chinese not being excited about the launch (except those who have something against the CCP, or those that haven't been to China in many years).

patriot said:

I saw on "News Hours With Jim Lehrer" that most Chinese wasn't excited at the launch of the shuttle. They said that the space program was designed to shift the attention of the Chinese people from the country's oppressive political problems.

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that is the biggest lie i've heard in recent years (even bigger than saddam having WMD). it's so big that it's kinda funny because there're 1.3 billion people in the world cheering for the launch and here they say no one cared... (i only exaggrate slightly). everyone in china at the time was excited, if you were there (my relatives and my old friends were), then you'll know how the people felt. go ask anyone and they'll tell you that they're glad china has made such progress. i remember reading somewhere (the week during the mission) where a reporter was surprised when he asked a peasant, who was living in poverty, whether if he's happy for the launch, and the peasant said he is very happy and is proud for his country. i cannot give you anymore info than this because i wasn't in china when it happened (although it was possible since BC teachers were on strike at the time...), so i can't speak for everyone.

It is true that a lot of chinese people were very excited about the success of the space programme, it is also true that many others feel that it is irrelevant to their day-to-day life, all depending on your situation.

If you are a migrant worker working in a city construction site earning less than $4/day, of course a space programme seems to be so far away.

It is wrong to say ALL Chinese are or aren't happy about the space programme. That's the problem with some Western reports. There are 1.3 billion people there and naturally the opinions could be different from person to person.

Generally speaking, those young and educated (including many students), who do not worry too much about life, feel very excited about the ShenZhou success. Those who are struggling to make a living, cannot care less.

Is CCP using space programme to raise the national pride and even divert the attention from real social and economic problems? Maybe that is one of reasons for the space prgramme, and there is nothing wrong with that, because every government uses this trick more or less. Why do you think G W Bush suddently wanted to send human to the moon and mars?

Dongfeng said:

Is CCP using space programme to raise the national pride and even divert the attention from real social and economic problems? Maybe that is one of reasons for the space prgramme, and there is nothing wrong with that, because every government uses this trick more or less. Why do you think G W Bush suddently wanted to send human to the moon and mars?

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Man, I hope GW wasn't thinking he'd be able to excite the American public with the moon or mars, b/c the American public doesn't seem to care at all, no matter if they are minimum wage or quite well off. Manned space programs invoke nothing but apathy in the US--quite sad. Bush senior also proposed a manned mars mission in his day, same reaction from the US public, a big "who cares, so what; wouldn't that be expensive?" and nothing ever came of it. I am somewhat bitter.

I don't know about others, but personally I am full of respect to any space programme, no matter it is from China, US, Russia, Europe, or any other countries. A space programme brings huge benefit to our society. Most importantly, it inspires younger generation to pursue science and technology when they grow up.

I suspect those who say Chinese space programme is only to divert attention from real problem must be very skeptical about the US space programme too.

patriot said:

I saw on "News Hours With Jim Lehrer" that most Chinese wasn't excited at the launch of the shuttle. They said that the space program was designed to shift the attention of the Chinese people from the country's oppressive political problems. It was a commie trick. This obviously wasn't true after reading this post. But any of you living in China want to give me some real answers.

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Look at it this way, even if it was a "diversionary project", it only works for couple of days when people are watching the spacecraft on TV.

Like it or not, almost all land on this planet has been "discovered" and claimed. Out in space, there are countless planets with resources to be had. We don't have the technology to reach and obtain this resources right now, but if you don't start with the first step, you'd never get there.