Peace Mission 2005

Wingman

Junior Member
Does anyone have any details of what exactly happens in Peace Mission 2005? What kind of exercises are there? Any info on competitions (e.g. dofighting) and any results?

I found some stuff here
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But I'm more interested in details for the aircraft exercises.
 
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Kampfwagen

Junior Member
Hate to leap off topic here, but while I do agree with you Red Guard, Paratroopers are an excelent fighting force IF you are willing to risk massive casualties. Crete was a prime example of this, as well as Normandy. You would, on average, loose several planes loaded with 20+ troops, or have pilots panic and make mis-drops. To say however that Helo-insertions arent effective and more dangerous is not entirely correct. Whilst Helo-Inserts are more high-risk than the typical Air-Drop, it isint so much of an uncoordinated mess as Parachute drops typicaly are. Misdrops are still very common and can happen very easily as accuracy is so specific. Just a shift in the wind and your blown five miles into the lap of the enemy. This could be disasterous if one were to extract information from these troops. Suddenly the whole operation is out the window. But typicaly speaking, if the insertions in Helo-drops are that hot, then ether the crew will be completely incapacitated (Chechneya) or will have the capacity to fight (Somalia) even if they have serious injuries. That, and typicaly only pilots in an emergency situation even attempt to make hot landings. The lessons from these conflicts have taught those that armored or mechanized infantry aproaches are the best ways to enter a hotzone.
 

goldenpanda

Banned Idiot
1. They are very hard to extract from the battlefield, so you basically have to overrun enemy forces with your ground forces to relieve them.

I think extraction has been overplayed. How many battles are like Vietnam war? You can't extract a large force, especially one that's heavily engaged with the enemy. Choppers also lack range and are vulnerable to ground level weapons. If they get shot down by guerrillas, how about an organized, modern army?

2. They did very bad in WWII, what makes you think they can fare better today? Another weakness of theirs is the lack of firepower. If they're not relieved quick enough, they'd just be mown down by enemy armor. Which brings to another point:

They captured Crete. How else could Hitler have done it? Modern paratroopers can hold an urban area against armor.

3. Paratroopers traditionally have high casualty rates. For every day they are out in the field, they take many casualties and lose a lot of precious ammunition, something, which is irreplaceable to the paratroopers. Of course you can do a supply drop, but a lot of it is going to end up on the wrong hands. With the use of thermal sights and flares they'd just be sitting ducks when they drop, even in a night drop.

Many will die, that's why paratroopers are the bravest in any army. I wonder if paradrops can be assisted by a chopper insertion just moments before.

4. Lack of mobility, most paratroopers will be foot infantry, with a small portion that gets jeeps. That means they have to be dropped very close to their objective, and if it's an objective, you can be sure it's well guarded.

Foot infantry can be surprisingly mobile. In Korea PLA maneuvered quite well on foot.

Oh and, HALO doesn't fare much better than HAHO against ground fire.

can you explain HALo and HAHO to me?
 

isthvan

Tailgunner
VIP Professional
I think extraction has been overplayed. How many battles are like Vietnam war? You can't extract a large force, especially one that's heavily engaged with the enemy. Choppers also lack range and are vulnerable to ground level weapons. If they get shot down by guerrillas, how about an organized, modern army?

Extraction and medivac aren't by no way overplayed. Range can be extended with air refueling and ground fire vulnerability is overrated (transport choppers don't work alone, they are covered by fighters, gunships, and your one ground forces). Plus level of tactical flexibility provided by usage of helicopters is still unmatched by any other way of transport...


They captured Crete. How else could Hitler have done it? Modern paratroopers can hold an urban area against armor.

Yes Crete is great example; no significant armor opposition, demoralized opponent and so high casualties among invading forces that Germans stopped conducting airborne operations after Crete...


Many will die, that's why paratroopers are the bravest in any army. I wonder if paradrops can be assisted by a chopper insertion just moments before.

Paratroopers are elite in any army and many will die but task is to hold ground for limited amount of time until main force can arrive and nothing more... Plus if you have option to use choppers why would you use para drop?



Foot infantry can be surprisingly mobile. In Korea PLA maneuvered quite well on foot.

And Hannibal proved great level of tactical mobility using elephants. That doesn't mean that for modern warfare there aren't better way to provide mobility to your troops.



can you explain HALo and HAHO to me?

HALO - high altitude jump,low altitude opening of parachute

HAHO-high altitude jump, high altitude opening
 

goldenpanda

Banned Idiot
The idea is the chopper force needs only be large enough to briefly secure the landing zone. The small force is cheaper, easier to escort, more stealthy. The paradrops give you the heavy equipment, supplies, and main force.
 

isthvan

Tailgunner
VIP Professional
The idea is the chopper force needs only be large enough to briefly secure the landing zone. The small force is cheaper, easier to escort, more stealthy. The paradrops give you the heavy equipment, supplies, and main force.

I just don't get it... Main task in any such operation is to achieve surprise and local superiority... Using small force attack as prelude to such operation you are losing both.
 

goldenpanda

Banned Idiot
I just don't get it... Main task in any such operation is to achieve surprise and local superiority... Using small force attack as prelude to such operation you are losing both.

You do have both. The insertion only needs to be big enough to pin down near by enemies, while airborne are forming up. We're not dropping on top of SS armor (hopefully). Probably just take care of some AA militia troops.
 

isthvan

Tailgunner
VIP Professional
You do have both. The insertion only needs to be big enough to pin down near by enemies, while airborne are forming up. We're not dropping on top of SS armor (hopefully). Probably just take care of some AA militia troops.

You cant have both even if you are going against "some AA militia troops". By landing small amount of troops you have alerted opposition and you are losing surprise needed for your troops to survive landing. Opposition will also be able to call for backups at much sooner time so your troops could find them selfs fighting with much stronger enemy then expected even before they are able to secure landing zone...

And even those " AA militia troops can pin down invading force for significant amount of time (good example is Ranger air drop at Point Salines during operation Urgent Fury (Grenada)).
 

goldenpanda

Banned Idiot
I don't know why you fail to see it can be add a useful dimension to the airborne assault. By the time their AA gets hit on the ground they already know the airborne is on the way, so it doesn't lose surprise. And getting pinned down, both me and AA, is just what we want.
 

isthvan

Tailgunner
VIP Professional
I don't know why you fail to see it can be add a useful dimension to the airborne assault. By the time their AA gets hit on the ground they already know the airborne is on the way, so it doesn't lose surprise. And getting pinned down, both me and AA, is just what we want.

And I don't know why you fail to see that jump in the middle of firefight, against alerted enemy that has reinforcements on the way is worst case scenario that should be avoided at all costs...
 
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