Pakistan Air Force Modernization

china can learn french radars now, its not something the embargo will block. its illegal, but no one will care over a radar sale or liscence, especially not france.

MIGleader said:

china can learn french radars now, its not something the embargo will block. its illegal, but no one will care over a radar sale or liscence, especially not france.

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a poster from CDF said that the people at Nanjing development center (basically 611 I think) are pro-western (I'm guessing that means pro-French). And it sounded like we are getting help from foreign companies in the radar development. Then again, it'd be nice if we can buy the radar used on mirage 2k5.

tphuang said:

you underrate J-10 way too much. Things that J-10 beats PAF F-16 A/B in:
1. avionics
2. AAM
3. engine
4. maneouverability
Things that PAF F-16A/B beats J-10
can't think of any.

As compared to F-16C/D, J-10 should be at least in the block 30 level, which is the first time that F-16 got equipped with AMRAAM and the upgraded engine.

Do you even know what the point of having su-30mkk is? They are used mainly as ground and naval attackers in plaaf and plan. J-10 is the best A2A combat plane in PLAAF service right now. Check the J-10 thread in the aviation forum.


That's how the lifting of embargo will help PLAAF, China needs to learn the French radars.

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I disagree, even though the J-10 will be fitted w/ the newest radar in Chinese development, Pakistan has upgraded their F-16s w/ the ATLAS pod and a new radar-the APG-66, which brings it close to the MLU. All the PAF needs are BVR missiles for its F-16s and they're set. Also, the MLU can be compared to the Block 40, Pakistan has brought it's F-16s to the level of the Block 30.

DPRKUnderground said:

I disagree, even though the J-10 will be fitted w/ the newest radar in Chinese development, Pakistan has upgraded their F-16s w/ the ATLAS pod and a new radar-the APG-66, which brings it close to the MLU. All the PAF needs are BVR missiles for its F-16s and they're set. Also, the MLU can be compared to the Block 40, Pakistan has brought it's F-16s to the level of the Block 30.

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He was comparing J-10 to the original F-16s before the MLU. At least that's what I got out of what he said. As for MLU, it's electronics may have improved, but its frame is still the first generation frame. As you might know, there was a huge change at block 25 and then an engine change at block 30.

For MLU, it still uses the old engine (that means it's maneouverability probably didn't improve or marginally improved).



let's look at its improvement in Avionics/Cockpit,
radar - APG-66(v2), I'm sorry, this is still not APG-68. It can track 10 targets. Even the moderate estimates of KLJ-3 has that. If you believe what Richard Fisher says, KLJ-3 has 150 KM search range with ability to track 16-20 targets and engage 4-8 targets. It still is a pulse doppler radar. KLJ-3 is probably at that stage or slotted array, since Zhemchug is PD.
MFD - J-10 has 3 of them.
HMS - J-10 has it
HUD - J-10 has it, although I'm not sure about the performance comparisons. Maybe the F-16 has a wider angled one.
audio/video recorder - never mentionned with J-10, so I'm guessing no

As for other improvements, it looks like there is quite a bit of improvement in GPS, digital terrain system and such. It looks like a lot of improvement in F-16's multirole capabilities. Since they are using modern systems, I think these MLUs should have better multirole capabilities than J-10 in terms of precision strikes and such.

However, I doubt these things actually help in A2A combat. Let's look at the important elements in air combat:
1. AAM - PAF still has no AMRAAM to equip the MLUs
2. radar - better, but stil APG-66, not to the standard of APG-68
3. maneouverability - engine still stinks and the air frame hasn't changed, so no substantial improvement there either.
4. RCS - probably no substantial change.

after some googling, it appears KLJ-3 is either a slotted array, phase array radar or a planar array radar. According to Richard Fisher, KLJ-3 is a planar array radar. On a side note, APG-68 is also a planar array radar.

Now, if I only know the exact different between these types of radars. lol

tphuang said:

He was comparing J-10 to the original F-16s before the MLU.

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I wasnt comparing the fighters before MLU. MLU still has not taken place. Only few upgrades such as self Radar upgrade.

tphuang said:

after some googling, it appears KLJ-3 is either a slotted array, phase array radar or a planar array radar. According to Richard Fisher, KLJ-3 is a planar array radar. On a side note, APG-68 is also a planar array radar.
Now, if I only know the exact different between these types of radars. lol

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Don't faint over the math