Pakistan Air Force Modernization
- Thread starter Diving Falcon
- Start date
"India's defence ministry has been authorised by the cabinet to buy 12 used French-built Mirage 2000 jet fighters from Qatar."
As for Mirage 2000 vs. <insert aircraft>, I'll just say that the French is far better at "user interface" design than the Russians. For an example compare the cockpit layouts of French aircraft vs. Russian:
French:
Russian:
The benefit for Pakistan to purchase French aircraft is that the French are willing to sell a stockpile of spares and munitions, the Americans are not.
Although the capabilities of the Mirage-2000 and F-16 are quite similiar, the Mirage-2000 is more costly because Dassault only made ~500 Mirage-2000 planes, versus Lockheed Martin has made ~4,000 F-16's. More planes = less R&D expense per copy.
Pakistan's F-16 purchase:
"Current sale proposal by the USA
Recent discussion with the Indian ministry of defence indicates that the F-16 could be bought by the Indian Air Force. According to Indian media Lockheed Martin has expressed interest in the co-production of F-16s in India but there have been no such reports from US government nor has Lockheed Martin confirmed these reports. India is a big market of Russian fighter jets as IAF flies large numbers of Russian MiG & Sukhoi fighters but recently India has been trying to break away. However, Russia has threatened that if India moves away from the Russian market then Russia will open its military aviation market to India's foe Pakistan. Pakistan is interested in buying Russian Sukhoi Su-35 aircraft. India currently uses Russian MiG-21, MiG-27, and MiG-29 aircraft as well as the Sukhoi Su-30MKI, which has created the imbalance in air power in South Asia.
The USA has also lifted curbs on Pakistan acquiring the latest F-16 block 52/52+ C/D version. Pakistan is also looking into other fighters equal or superior to the F-16 — for example, Sweden's JAS-39 Gripen and France's Rafale.
Pakistan recently reported that it is going to buy 75 late-model F-16s (F-16C/D, Block 50/52) along with some secondhand USAF F-16s & discussions with US on the deal is to go under way very soon. US has already rolled out two secondhand F-16s for PAF which would be delivered in December 2005 after some necessary modifications. These two F-16s will serve as gap fillers for the current fleet as they would be sent for MLU upgrades. PAF is to send two F-16s for MLU on turn bases. After two F-16s are MLUed & delivered, an other two would be commissioned for MLU & the process will continue until 35 operational F-16s of PAF are upgraded. The two secondhand F-16s will remain with PAF permanently & may be joined with other 2nd hand F-16s. The fate of four broken F-16s which were also cannibalized for operational fighters will be decided soon whether Lockheed-Martin is to rebuild them or PAF puts them up as replicas at the head offices in major Pakistani cities.
USA has agreed to give MLU to PAF's current F-16s to the Block 50 standard.
It is believed that PAF is going to maintain 150+ F-16s with advanced avionics & weapons systems which may include AIM-120 AMRAAMs, AIM-9X Sidewinders along with AESA Radars.
Pakistan may also modify its new & old F-16s with some European weapon & avionics system."
MIGleader said:
Wrong my friend. J-10 is not better than F-16C/D/E/F. They are way to superior & way too evolved. J-10 is still needs time to fully evolve. It is good compared to PAF F-16s only in Radar & BVR sections. F-16A/B PAF are still very good machinese. They can be P-I-A in WVR & would be even worse after the MLU.
BrotherofSnake said:The Mirage 2000 is comparable to the F-16. They are both multi-role fighters. The F-15 is an air superiority fighter.
Correct.
Mirage2000 & F-16 are of same league (MultiRoles). F-15 are air superiority just as Su-27 & Su-30.
China has a good air superiority fighters in the form of Su-27 & Su-30MK2,MK3 but the problem is a good sustainable, reliable & proven medium tech multirole fighter which they dont have & dont see J-10 & FC-1 fit the classification at the moment. Therefore their interest is in Mirage2000-5s.
Not only Mirage2000-5 will give them reliable multirole platform they'll also have 1st hand knowledge of Western Avionics (specialy French) which will help CAC to help J-10 evolve may be even FC-1 (excluding PAF J-17 since it would already be installed with mostly French systems).
Currently PLAAF has one MultiRole platform available & thats Russian MiG-29 but PLAAF calls it "Not Good" & CAC says "Worth less machine (for study)". Besides they believe both FC-1 & J-10 can take on MiG-29 on any given day.
So once the EU lifts ban the only good multirole reliable platform available is Mirage2000-5 since they cant get JAS-39 Gripens or F-16 (which is not even European).
DPRKUnderground
Junior Member
Pakistan needs a third fighter to go along w/ the F-16s and JF-17s. Rafales look a little too expensive, J-10s are still maturing, Gripens might not be sold b/c the government doesn't want to sell military equipment to "non-peaceful" nations, b/c they are afraid Pakistan might use the Gripen in a conflict w/ India, but now that peace talks have started, there is a good chance, Mirage 2000s seem like a pretty good choice too, but they are expensive, used ones could be aquirred though.
SABRE said:
MiG-29... i dont think PLAAF will buy that, maybe if they get a carrier they might get the naval version, buti highly doubt it; since Sukoi also have a naval flanker...
Mirage 2000... they should go for Rafale, or even better just buy all there avonics tech and self engineer them!
DPRKUnderground said:
PAF has a place for 3rd 4th fighter & as mentioned before that AVM has said new high tech Fighters are availble from Europe & any one would be inducted after practical evaluation. PAF has already dropped Mirage2000-5 from the list since PAF is getting 75 new F-16s, two 2nd hand & MLU of 35 operational f-16s. With 112 F-16s why would u need Mirage2000-5 which is almost similar.
Sweden never denied Pakistan Gripens. The problem was weapon system on which Sweden relied upon US & at that point US was not willing to provide weapons for it aswell as engine for Pakistan. Now they are & PAF is back into talks with Sweden for JAS-39 Gripen & according to many ineternational observers the discussions between PAF & Sweden are going smoothly. Since Rafale are expensive & PAF still finds Mirage2000-9 with Pakistani coustomization a better option than Rafale but is not willing to purchase any Mirages, I conclude that its Gripen that may be inducted even though I find Gripen in the same league as F-16C & also uses almost similar weapons, its just that in addition to US, Gripens also carry French Weapons.
What did I say ??? I said that the PLAAF doesnt like it (they said "Not Good") & CAC doesnt like it either [they said "Worthless Machine (to study)"]
China might settle for MiG-29M for its AirCraft Carriers. No other better choice is available & Sukhoi's Carrier Version fighters are canceled. They dint work out. Only two are operation on some Russian AC Carrier & they too are soon to be grounded.
DPRKUnderground
Junior Member
SABRE said:
The Gripen would be good, but isn't their another fighter they can go for? You may think I'm being stupid, but what about the F-18?
you underrate J-10 way too much. Things that J-10 beats PAF F-16 A/B in:SABRE said:
1. avionics
2. AAM
3. engine
4. maneouverability
Things that PAF F-16A/B beats J-10
can't think of any.
As compared to F-16C/D, J-10 should be at least in the block 30 level, which is the first time that F-16 got equipped with AMRAAM and the upgraded engine.
Do you even know what the point of having su-30mkk is? They are used mainly as ground and naval attackers in plaaf and plan. J-10 is the best A2A combat plane in PLAAF service right now. Check the J-10 thread in the aviation forum.
That's how the lifting of embargo will help PLAAF, China needs to learn the French radars.