Russian Su-57 Aircraft Thread (PAK-FA and IAF FGFA)

Air Force Brat

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
b787 said:
you are wrong and i mean no disrespect.

T-50 has several features common with YF-23 rather with Su-27, T-50 flew 20 years after YF-22 and YF-23, you can see the advances simply in aerodynamics, the LEVCON is one, and that is a visible one.

I will not tell you which one is better, since that is a futile work, i will simply say the T-50 has different philosophy, it is designed to track stealth aircraft by means of 5 radars and an IRST system; escape enemy missiles by means of super cruise, and a variable geometry intake that will allow speeds of Mach 2.5 at max speeds and 1.8-19 Mach supercruise.

It is designed to be as stealthy as F-22 by means of planform alignment, composites and a smart skin.

In few words it was designed to be faster, and more maneuverable with a blend of Passive and active radars to detect its rivals at theoretically longer ranges, if it really does or does not well History will tell, but the philosophy of the T-50 reflects two main trends, stealth aircraft can be detected and speed is life and if you can not out run it you have to dodge it
Click to expand...

Heh! Heh! ,well I'm may not live that long and I'm not that patient anymore, as I said, a very nice airplane with lots of "doo-dads", the fact that its 20 years behind the Raptor means it has a lot of ground to make up. The Raptor is still getting smarter and gaining capability, in real world speed, no doubt in my mind the Raptor is still top dog, maybe PAK-FA will supercruise??? Maybe it will be "pretty stealthy", but they are putting a lot of money on "active cancellation"???

"you are wrong"??? but you won't tell me which one is better??? now one or both of those statements cannot be correct??? can they??? hummh???,

yes, I do have the question marks copyrighted???? well maybe not????
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Air Force Brat said:
the fact that its 20 years behind the Raptor means it has a lot of ground to make up. The Raptor is still getting smarter and gaining capability, in real world speed, no doubt in my mind the Raptor is still top dog,
Click to expand...
Brat, the T-50/PAKFA is still a prototype.

Despite what the Russians may say. they are going to accomplish, they simply have not done so yet. They are years away form full operational capability.

They have a lot to do in terms of stealth, in terms of their engine and particularly its IR signature, and in terms of electronics to catch up with the F-22.

We know what the F-22 can do, and have a ten year operational record to show for it.

The PAKFA is still an unknown.

It is definitely going to be a good aircraft.

But right now, in its current condition, it would not stand against the F-22.

By the time it is fully operational capable and has a track record behind it that can actually really be compared to the F-22, the US will be well along towards its 6th gen fighter.

In the mean time, I can say that the PAKFA as it is a very nice looking and capable aircraft as it is. Just not comparable to the F-22 in its current form.

To try and indicate that it is as good as, or better than the F-22 is simply not possible to do a this time. It goes to the old saying, "if ifs and buts were candy and nuts everyone would have a Merry Christmas."
 
Air Force Brat

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Jeff Head said:
Brat, the T-50/PAKFA is still a prototype.

Despite what the Russians may say. they are going to accomplish, they simply have not done so yet. They are years away form full operational capability.

They have a lot to do in terms of stealth, in terms of their engine and particularly its IR signature, and in terms of electronics to catch up with the F-22.

We know what the F-22 can do, and have a ten year operational record to show for it.

The PAKFA is still an unknown.

It is definitely going to be a good aircraft.

But right now, in its current condition, it would not stand against the F-22.

By the time it is fully operational capable and has a track record behind it that can actually really be compared to the F-22, the US will be well along towards its 6th gen fighter.

In the mean time, I can say that the PAKFA as it is a very nice looking and capable aircraft as it is. Just not comparable to the F-22 in its current form.

To try and indicate that it is as good as, or better than the F-22 is simply not possible to do a this time. It goes to the old saying, "if ifs and buts were candy and nuts everyone would have a Merry Christmas."
Click to expand...

Precisely, and as good as the new birds "might' be, the amount of R and D and cubic money invested in the ATF have placed her a-top the flag pole for a long time to come, and she is unlikely to be dethroned by these hot new chicks, with their fancy doo-dads. What continues to amaze is the amount of growth potential the F-22, but even more dazzling the F-35 had designed into them. This is the PAK-FA thread, and back on topic we are expecting the hybrid 055 to fly anytime?
I wonder if Aksha has any updates from the Indian side, I really do think the Indians have an opportunity to get in on the ground floor partly in response to 055s misfortunes?
 
Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
t-50_170814.t.jpg

Is this really PAKFA? :) I found it a moment ago when checking PAKFA news, in
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

(the article is yet another "confident-manager-at-Le Bourget-2015 talking" LOL)
 
b787

b787

Captain
Air Force Brat said:
PAK-FA will supercruise??? Maybe it will be "pretty stealthy", but they are putting a lot of money on "active cancellation"???

"you are wrong"??? but you won't tell me which one is better??? now one or both of those statements cannot be correct??? can they??? hummh???,
Click to expand...
Your statements follow this reasoning, stealth can not be detected.

However there are radar systems that claim to be able to detect stealth aircraft, also infrared systems are evolving into being able to detect.

We are in technological dilemma, can stealth be detected? some people say they can with modern low frequency radars, anyway how can a stealth fighter detect and shoot down another stealth fighter?

and here is where you are reasoning with patriotism and not with logic, stealth fighters can detect each other and they will use radars and infrared detection to do it, then speed and agility will decide that.

You can think F-22 can not be detected and believe Lockheed Martin instead of Sukhoi, that is fine which propaganda you buy, but in real air to air combat, these two fighters if ever they face each other, will need radars to detect each other, and that has not happened yet.

So for me the issue is over. until a PAKFA faces a F-22 we will know which one is better, but Sukhoi has used new concept and ideas, if they work or not who knows, but do not think a rival has made a inferior product without ever being able to test it and that has not yet happened, the USAF has not gotten a T-50 and test it versus a F-22.

So all this conversation is sterile at most and it will not go beyond a few nationalistic rants thus i will not continue it

regards
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
There is real operational data for only one of the aircraft...and that is not the PAKFA . Talk about that right now is just that...talk. It is a prototype and is years away form achieving full operational capability. The F-22, OTOH, is fully operational, has real data to look at, and has gone up against many of today's best aircraft.

The PAKFA one day will get to go up against some Russian and potentially its allies aircraft once it becomes operational, and at that time any actual data regarding each can be compared.

In the mean time, we can talk about what the prototype PKAFAs look like and have installed on them. Then as production aircraft come out and Russia adds the various things it is talking about, we can talk about those and what they are meant to do.

That's what the thread is meant to be about.

Any more back and forth trying to compare the two like this will simply be deleted after this point.

A passing comment here and there in the future is fine...but talk about trying to compare in detail a prototype where the host country is talking about what it might do, versus aircraft that are in production and have real data about what they are doing, simply becomes a meaningless argument (as this one) and that is against SD rules.

So, let's get back on topic.

DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MODERATION

.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top