Russian Su-57 Aircraft Thread (PAK-FA and IAF FGFA)

Jura The idiot · Jul 22, 2017

Air Force Brat said:
... "super-maneuverability"!

bro I think you don't check
Russian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
so Su-35
Today at 10:14 AM

Jura said:
ooh la la
"... low speed “Pugachev’s Cobra” transitioning to a tumbling back flip followed by a side-slip to an inverted spin and then a classic recovery gained by pointing the aircraft’s nose to the ground to regain lost energy in exchange for altitude. The entire sequence is flown at altitude that presumably lives little margin for error, making it even more thrilling."
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starts around:

in

Equation · Jul 22, 2017

manqiangrexue said:
How can you compare the 2 programs when you don't know the final product? Why would you compare the programs at all? To show how far China had come? It's obvious how fast China has advanced and it’s insecure to feel the need to put down an ally to show others your progress. On top of that, it's against the rules and it's not what this forum is about.

It's not about feeling "insecure" I'm just stating the obvious how China had advanced so much and so far. The general consensus among the opinions of writers, readers, and experts from the West and in Russia is that China can NEVER catch up to them in technology due to culture and politics. Now that the rooster came home to roost and reality hits the fan, some members here just couldn't face the music.

manqiangrexue said:
Never forget that when the American-led western nations tried to suffocate Chinese weapon technology in its infancy with embargoes and bans, Russia was China's teacher (a harsh teacher with a heavy price tag but a crucial teacher nonetheless). The student who dishonors his teacher dishonors himself.

Not much of a teacher than, and now the teacher that over looks the student will be the one learning the lessons of humbleness. I'm just saying bro.

manqiangrexue · Jul 22, 2017

Equation said:
Not much of a teacher than, and now the teacher that over looks the student will be the one learning the lessons of humbleness. I'm just saying bro.

Not much of a teacher?? J-5 from MiG-15; J-6 from MiG-19; J-7 from MiG 21; J-8 from Su-15; J-11 from Su-27; J-15 from Su-33, J-16 from MKK, H-6 from Tu-16. To this day, AL-31 variants power many of China's front-line fighters (including J-20) and it was through working with this engine that China learned the basics of the high-performance fighter turbofan. How much of a teacher do you want??! We're talking about a rising superpower here, not a child; your teacher can't come to your factory and hold your hand as you struggle through things.

When China looks back on all of this, it has Russia to be grateful towards and to share its credit with; China's progress was not on its own.

You're just saying, but you've got no reason to be saying.

Equation · Jul 22, 2017

manqiangrexue said:
Not much of a teacher?? J-5 from MiG-15; J-6 from MiG-19; J-7 from MiG 21; J-8 from Su-15; J-11 from Su-27; J-15 from Su-33, J-16 from MKK, H-6 from Tu-16. To this day, AL-31 variants power many of China's front-line fighters (including J-20) and it was through working with this engine that China learned the basics of the high-performance fighter turbofan. How much of a teacher do you want??! We're talking about a rising superpower here, not a child; your teacher can't come to your factory and hold your hand as you struggle through things.

When China looks back on all of this, it has Russia to be grateful towards and to share its credit with; China's progress was not on its own.

You're just saying, but you've got no reason to be saying.

What about the fake nuclear technology that they gave China before China has to research many of it from scratch back in the 1950s and 1960s?

sanblvd · Jul 22, 2017

Base on uneducated observation, to me the biggest problem with Pak Fa's stealth its the under belly, it still have those Su-27 rectangle intakes as well a engine gap between there, and its non smooth surface all the way to the exposed engine, half of the engine's metal surfaces are exposed all the way to engine nozzle.

Where as F-22 and J-20's upper belly are all the way smooth to the unexposed engine body itself, then there is the nozzle where F-22 does it the best, its entirely covered by TVC, where J-20 only has its nozzle exposed.

From a headon view, all 3 jet look like they have excellent stealth feature, but when the pilot make a turn there where they would expose the underside to enemy's rader, this is where Pak Fa might have a problem.

b787 · Jul 22, 2017

sanblvd said:
Base on uneducated observation, to me the biggest problem with Pak Fa's stealth its the under belly, it still have those Su-27 rectangle intakes as well a engine gap between there, and its non smooth surface all the way to the exposed engine, half of the engine's metal surfaces are exposed all the way to engine nozzle.

Where as F-22 and J-20's upper belly are all the way smooth to the unexposed engine body itself, then there is the nozzle where F-22 does it the best, its entirely covered by TVC, where J-20 only has its nozzle exposed.

From a headon view, all 3 jet look like they have excellent stealth feature, but when the pilot make a turn there where they would expose the underside to enemy's rader, this is where Pak Fa might have a problem.

do you understand fresnel's laws? flat surfaces reflect the electromagnetic waves into one single direction, they send the radar waves concentrated in few words a very strong signal into one direction; round surfaces they split the radar signal and reflect it into different directions but these are weaker signals than the original one.

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to put it simple, the import thing is the angle of incidence of the radar wave.
b-2 uses rounded surfaces but with an angle of incidence different to the normal of the reflecting surface plane, round surfaces allow for more aerodynamic surfaces,nothing is truly invisible to radar,just harder to see upon weak signals, all stealth aircraft are detectable, thus supercruise will be more important than stealth

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sanblvd · Jul 22, 2017

Yes I know all stealth fighters are can detected base on range, but less stealthy plants can be detected at longer range than more stealthy jets.

Like I said, just a amateur observation, but if you are saying that Pak Fa's jagged underbelly + exposed metal engine surfaces is better than smooth underbelly + radar absorbing surface that covers the engine of F-22 and J-20 then that means both Chinese and American don't know what they are doing, but Russia do.... if so, ok then.

b787 · Jul 22, 2017

sanblvd said:
Yes I know all stealth fighters are can detected base on range, but less stealthy plants can be detected at longer range than more stealthy jets.

Like I said, just a amateur observation, but if you are saying that Pak Fa's jagged underbelly + exposed metal engine surfaces is better than smooth underbelly + radar absorbing surface that covers the engine of F-22 and J-20 then that means both Chinese and American don't know what they are doing, but Russia do.... if so, ok then.

look read freznel's laws, and the reflecting angle is equal to the incident angle (albeit with a mirror image)
. if the flat belly is stealthy is because of the incidence expected, but huygens principle tells you it is not a perfect reflection. at some angle a flat surface is less stealthy than a rounded one

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manqiangrexue · Jul 22, 2017

Equation said:
What about the fake nuclear technology that they gave China before China has to research many of it from scratch back in the 1950s and 1960s?

China and the Soviet Union have not always enjoyed friendly relations. However, that is unrelated to this topic and it does not change the fact that China's aerospace sector would not be where it is today without Russia.

Equation · Jul 23, 2017

manqiangrexue said:
China and the Soviet Union have not always enjoyed friendly relations. However, that is unrelated to this topic and it does not change the fact that China's aerospace sector would not be where it is today without Russia.

True, but I need to private message to our SDF members b787 and apologize for being mean to him.

Russian Su-57 Aircraft Thread (PAK-FA and IAF FGFA)

Jura The idiot

General

Equation

Lieutenant General

manqiangrexue

Brigadier

Equation

Lieutenant General

sanblvd

Junior Member

b787

Captain

sanblvd

Junior Member

b787

Captain

manqiangrexue

Brigadier

Equation

Lieutenant General