P-8A/P-8I ASW/MPA Aircraft Thread

[Jeff Head]

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The first production P-8 was handed over to the Navy on 4 March 2012. It flew to Naval Air Station Jacksonville, Florida, where it will be used for aircrew training with the Fleet Replacement Squadron (FRS), Patrol Squadron 30 (VP-30). In February 2012, this same aircraft made its mission debut during Bold Alligator 2012, an annual amphibious assault warfare exercise. In April 2012, the aircraft took part in Exercise Joint Warrior, flying out of RAF Lossiemouth.

Read all about the P-8A Poseidon, its specification, history and design, with a lot of great photos:

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Here are some pics.

Six flight test aircraft have already been built and put through ecxtensive testing, along with two static, gorund test aircraft. The Navy plans to upgrade all six flight test aircraft to production standards once full operational capability is achiedved. Initial operatioal Capanbility is slated for next year.

To that end, low rate production has been approved and is in process to deliver seven aircraft each year to the US Navy and begin replacing the very capable, but now very old P-3C Orions which are at the end of their service life. After 2013, once 21 aircraft have been delivered, it is expected that full production will begin. 117 total aircraft are planned for the US Navy.

The Indian Navy is ordering these aircraft as well, and plans on having 24 of them as the P-8I Neptune. The first is to be delivered to India next year, in 2013.

These are precisely the types of aircraft the PLAN must produce in some numbers to add to the capability and viablility of their over all ASW efforts.

 

[joshuatree]

I understand the economics of the P8 being based on the 737-800. But a turboprop replacement would have been nice as they are more fuel efficient and can loiter much longer.

 

[Jeff Head]

I understand the economics of the P8 being based on the 737-800. But a turboprop replacement would have been nice as they are more fuel efficient and can loiter much longer.

Well, when you look at the specs, there is an advantage to the P-3C in terms of its loiter time.

The P-3C has a ferry range of 4800 kmi at 328 knts. The P-8A has a freey range of 4200 kmi at 440 knts.

This means at 1200 kmi the P-3C can loiter for 7 hrs, while the P-8A can loiter for 4 hours at the same range.

Now, the P-8A is going to get there faster, and in that 4 hours the P-8A will be able to cover 1600 kmi, while in the 7 hours the P-3C would cover 2256 kmi. The P-8A does enjoy a 13,000 foot higher ceiling capability (28,000 for the P-3C, 41,000 for the P-8A).

 

[i.e.]

Well, when you look at the specs, there is an advantage to the P-3C in terms of its loiter time.

The P-3C has a ferry range of 4800 kmi at 328 knts. The P-8A has a freey range of 4200 kmi at 440 knts.

This means at 1200 kmi the P-3C can loiter for 7 hrs, while the P-8A can loiter for 4 hours at the same range.

Now, the P-8A is going to get there faster, and in that 4 hours the P-8A will be able to cover 1600 kmi, while in the 7 hours the P-3C would cover 2256 kmi. The P-8A does enjoy a 13,000 foot higher ceiling capability (28,000 for the P-3C, 41,000 for the P-8A).

also P-8A is designed to work with BAMS.

that's why they can accept a shorter loiter and worse low altitude performance then P3



actually if you look at C919...

there is a "special missions" model C919 that was part of brochures and advertisemnets.

ofcourse most of the Western contents will get replaced such as engines and avionics. so it doesn't get their western suppliers in trouble.

but yeah C919 is designed with such missions in mind. but that;s in the long run.

 

[Vini_Vidi_Vici]

What's FUNDAMENTALLY different between P-8 and P-3, apart from just making everything better?

 

[Jeff Head]

also P-8A is designed to work with BAMS.

that's why they can accept a shorter loiter and worse low altitude performance then P3

Here's the write-up and description from the Naval Air Systems Command:

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An excellent program that will work in concert not only with the P-8A Poseidon, but also with Carrier Strike Groups, Expeditionary Strike Groups IESG) and the Joint Forces Maritime Component Commander of the US Navy. Pretty impressive stuff which will paint a clearer and clearer picture of the overall MAritime Ballte Space for those forces.

Using targeting data provided by such a UAS, the P-8A will be able to turn its attention to more targets with mouch more reliability.

But I am not sure what ASW capabilities the unmanned aircraft will have...still researching to find out.

 

[i.e.]

Here's the write-up and description from the Naval Air Systems Command:

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An excellent program that will work in concert not only with the P-8A Poseidon, but also with Carrier Strike Groups, Expeditionary Strike Groups IESG) and the Joint Forces Maritime Component Commander of the US Navy. Pretty impressive stuff which will paint a clearer and clearer picture of the overall MAritime Ballte Space for those forces.

Using targeting data provided by such a UAS, the P-8A will be able to turn its attention to more targets with mouch more reliability.

But I am not sure what ASW capabilities the unmanned aircraft will have...still researching to find out.

BAMS is designed to stay aloft longer, trade away full capability for more time on station


737 is not exactly designed for flying long hours at mid to low altitutdes.

 

[joshuatree]

Well, when you look at the specs, there is an advantage to the P-3C in terms of its loiter time.

The P-3C has a ferry range of 4800 kmi at 328 knts. The P-8A has a freey range of 4200 kmi at 440 knts.

This means at 1200 kmi the P-3C can loiter for 7 hrs, while the P-8A can loiter for 4 hours at the same range.

Now, the P-8A is going to get there faster, and in that 4 hours the P-8A will be able to cover 1600 kmi, while in the 7 hours the P-3C would cover 2256 kmi. The P-8A does enjoy a 13,000 foot higher ceiling capability (28,000 for the P-3C, 41,000 for the P-8A).

It's a trade off. P-8A can get to site faster but can loiter less than the P-3C. P-8A's higher ceiling may translate into a broader view of the area but some of the higher ceiling is due to the nature of turbofan vs turboprop, each has their optimal altitude of operation. Don't think the higher altitude would affect launching any sensor buoys, mines, or torpedos. If it does require a low altitude pass to deploy, the turboprop would then have the advantage since it's operating in a lower altitude to begin with. If BAMS comes into play, a turboprop being at lower altitude won't be disadvantaged in coverage since it will be augmented with data from UAVs.

 

[navyreco]

Boeing Delivers 2nd Production P-8A Poseidon Aircraft to US Navy

Boeing on July 17 delivered the second production P-8A Poseidon aircraft to the U.S. Navy. The P-8A is one of 13 low rate initial production (LRIP) maritime patrol aircraft that Boeing is building for the Navy as part of two contracts awarded in 2011. Navy pilots flew the P-8A from Seattle to Naval Air Station Jacksonville, Fla., where the first LRIP P-8A is being used for aircrew training.

"We're proud to be able to meet our commitment and deliver another Poseidon to the fleet," said Chuck Dabundo, Boeing vice president and P-8 program manager. "Navy crews have had a couple of months of training with the first plane, and their feedback has been positive."

Three P-8As currently are undergoing mission systems installation and checkout in Seattle, and three are in final assembly in Renton, Wash. In order to efficiently design and build P-8A aircraft for the Navy and P-8I aircraft for India, the Boeing-led team is using a first-in-industry, in-line production process that draws on the company's Next-Generation 737 production system. All aircraft modifications are made in sequence during fabrication and assembly.

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[asif iqbal]

P-8 can fly 1200 miles fly for 4 hours and then fly all the way back at speeds of 480 knots

Indian P-8 will be based in INS Rajali which is on the South East of India in Tamil Nadu, this means they will have limited deployment in wartime against Pakistan that is if the already 8 Tu-142 are replaced by 8 P-8

The use of P-8 is primarily keeping eyes and ears on Chinese naval build up

However Indias final order might be as high as 24 aircraft which will not be complete until 2020 which is still years away