North Korean plane crashes in China

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
I find defecting and he ends up dead without someone shooting him down the most far-fetched. He was either crazy or there was some malfunction that caused unconsciousness and thus he crashed after he ran out of fuel which is why there seems to be no fire at the crash site. That happened in the US several years ago on a small civilian private jet where some malfunction occurred and everyone on board was knocked out. It flew like several hundred miles before it ran out of fuel and crashed.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
That happened in the US several years ago on a small civilian private jet where some malfunction occurred and everyone on board was knocked out. It flew like several hundred miles before it ran out of fuel and crashed.

Very true..PGA Golfer Payne Stewart was killed in that crash.

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Payne Stewart Plane Crash Information

25 October 1999; Sunjet Aviation Learjet 35; near Aberdeen, SD: Both pilots and all four passengers, including professional golfer and 1999 U.S. Open winner Payne Stewart, were killed in the crash of a Learjet 35 aircraft (N47BA). The NTSB determined that the crash was due to an incapacitation of the flight crew members due to a loss of cabin pressurization.
 

Pointblank

Senior Member
phpGH8xs5.jpg


The red line shows the course he was on, and if you were to draw the line out, how far it is to Russia. Of note, once the red line goes into Russia, there is a nearby airport; Krasnokamensk airport is only 40 miles West of where one could plot a rough entry point into Russian airspace. Distance from his airbase would be 750 mi.

My guess is that his knowledge of the territory outside North Korea is very limited; the Soviet style ground control system doesn't require a whole lot of knowledge of terrain, just how to fly the aircraft. He may not even know which way is the shortest route to his destination let alone possible airports.

He was probably flying on based upon what little knowledge he has outside of North Korea and knew that a northernly heading would take him straight out of North Korea. From then on, he probably would know that flying a certain speed and after certain time would result in him being in Russian airspace, and hope to hell he has enough fuel to find on his own a landing strip, or for Russian fighters to meet up with him and escort him to one. It's either that, or fly far enough into Russian airspace and find a populated area and punch out.

I doubt that he was shot down; the only image of the crashed bird shows that the 'landing' was fairly controlled as the aircraft is relatively intact (save for the nose area). If it was shot down, I would expect the aircraft to be in lots of little pieces as it would be an uncontrolled crash into the ground.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Are you still sticking to the story that he was on full afterburners. I don't think he can make that trip 730 miles away doing that.

How does anyone know he was defecting? The guy is dead. Did he notify someone before he took off? If he did that then why not notify South Korea and have ship waiting off-shore so he can ditch his fighter and they can pull him out? Why Russia? Did Kim teach his people that Russia was some Shangri-la? That couldn't be possible because the North Koreans are taught very little about the outside world and they live in heaven now. I know that's the story from South Korea because they don't want to make it look China was the destination since the guy didn't choose them first as a better choice to live. So many easier choices but he took the hardest one and on top of that costed him his life.
 

Maggern

Junior Member
[qimg]http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c21/the_pointblank/phpGH8xs5.jpg[/qimg]

The red line shows the course he was on, and if you were to draw the line out, how far it is to Russia. Of note, once the red line goes into Russia, there is a nearby airport; Krasnokamensk airport is only 40 miles West of where one could plot a rough entry point into Russian airspace. Distance from his airbase would be 750 mi.

My guess is that his knowledge of the territory outside North Korea is very limited; the Soviet style ground control system doesn't require a whole lot of knowledge of terrain, just how to fly the aircraft. He may not even know which way is the shortest route to his destination let alone possible airports.

He was probably flying on based upon what little knowledge he has outside of North Korea and knew that a northernly heading would take him straight out of North Korea. From then on, he probably would know that flying a certain speed and after certain time would result in him being in Russian airspace, and hope to hell he has enough fuel to find on his own a landing strip, or for Russian fighters to meet up with him and escort him to one. It's either that, or fly far enough into Russian airspace and find a populated area and punch out.

I doubt that he was shot down; the only image of the crashed bird shows that the 'landing' was fairly controlled as the aircraft is relatively intact (save for the nose area). If it was shot down, I would expect the aircraft to be in lots of little pieces as it would be an uncontrolled crash into the ground.

Irregardless of training, if he's flown there before I'm sure he has some comprehension of how the surrounding terrain looks.

PS: Actually, if there was some sort of malfunction (losing cockpit pressure, the pilot losing consciousness) and the plane flying by itself, that makes the lack of interception all the more serious. Then it is not a matter of a foreign fighter breaching your airspace and trying to reach your airport, then it is a flying lump of metal heading straight for the largest urban center in northeast China. Again I find the direction most sinister. Of all 360* angles, the plane just happened to straight towards Shenyang/Fushun? (Although to be frank, the math tells us that angle is just as probable as any other)
 
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rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
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The red line shows the course he was on, and if you were to draw the line out, how far it is to Russia. Of note, once the red line goes into Russia, there is a nearby airport; Krasnokamensk airport is only 40 miles West of where one could plot a rough entry point into Russian airspace. Distance from his airbase would be 750 mi.

My guess is that his knowledge of the territory outside North Korea is very limited; the Soviet style ground control system doesn't require a whole lot of knowledge of terrain, just how to fly the aircraft. He may not even know which way is the shortest route to his destination let alone possible airports.

He was probably flying on based upon what little knowledge he has outside of North Korea and knew that a northernly heading would take him straight out of North Korea. From then on, he probably would know that flying a certain speed and after certain time would result in him being in Russian airspace, and hope to hell he has enough fuel to find on his own a landing strip, or for Russian fighters to meet up with him and escort him to one. It's either that, or fly far enough into Russian airspace and find a populated area and punch out.

I doubt that he was shot down; the only image of the crashed bird shows that the 'landing' was fairly controlled as the aircraft is relatively intact (save for the nose area). If it was shot down, I would expect the aircraft to be in lots of little pieces as it would be an uncontrolled crash into the ground.

Assuming that the defection theory was correct, it seemed that the pilot is trying to get away as far from NK as possible. I don't think that he might have limited knowledge on the terrain or geography outside NK, but from what we can see, he do not want to be close to NK as was suggested by the other two flight paths (especially the pink one). This might be because NK might have the capability to intercept the pilot if he was too close to the border or even shoot it down with SAM.

Thus he took a harder and longer way, and when he was too deep into another country, he might be able to prevent the NK from incurring into foreign airspace.

Irregardless of training, if he's flown there before I'm sure he has some comprehension of how the surrounding terrain looks.

See the above post.

PS: Actually, if there was some sort of malfunction (losing cockpit pressure, the pilot losing consciousness) and the plane flying by itself, that makes the lack of interception all the more serious. Then it is not a matter of a foreign fighter breaching your airspace and trying to reach your airport, then it is a flying lump of metal heading straight for the largest urban center in northeast China. Again I find the direction most sinister. Of all 360* angles, the plane just happened to straight towards Shenyang/Fushun? (Although to be frank, the math tells us that angle is just as probable as any other)

And that also make the air defence and detection of China somewhat of a joke... or perhaps the chinese already know the aircraft was there, came out deduce that the aircraft post no threat or whatsoever, and will crash due to the very bad shape and total lack of fuel (something that I doubt).
 

maozedong

Banned Idiot
I think the North Korean Mig-21 lost control in training then carshed into China, becaurse the North Korean air base closed to China border, the plane crashed into China area, it's so fast, China could not do any thing.I think Russia would not accept any North Korean renegade pilots, Russia and North Korea diplomatic relations is very good,Russia is not Western ally,the North Korean pilot should know this.
 

Maggern

Junior Member
And that also make the air defence and detection of China somewhat of a joke... or perhaps the chinese already know the aircraft was there, came out deduce that the aircraft post no threat or whatsoever, and will crash due to the very bad shape and total lack of fuel (something that I doubt).

Well as I said, if the plane was flying towards the largest population center in northeast China, it would definately pose a serious threat, if it is blind or functional or whatever. You just don't let flying hunks of metal race towards densely populated areas unless you are in full contact, control and are assured you can force him to land at an airfield, or shoot it down in a field at any point during the airspace intrusion.

Now, maozedong might have a point. If the NK airfield is just at the border and the plane suddenly strays into Chinese airspace, even if it's detected it would happen so fast that Chinese jets would not be able to scramble and reach the plane for some time. That is if China has fighters ready on alert on airbases along the NK border. Do they?
 

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
I think the North Korean Mig-21 lost control in training then carshed into China, becaurse the North Korean air base closed to China border, the plane crashed into China area, it's so fast, China could not do any thing.I think Russia would not accept any North Korean renegade pilots, Russia and North Korea diplomatic relations is very good,Russia is not Western ally,the North Korean pilot should know this.

What you say makes sense... however the crash site was around 200km into Chinese territory. That is plenty of distance covered and not a single interception. Not even a single shot fired at the enemy's aircraft... which is seriously kind of weird. And if the Chinese had actually detected this fighter... how long do you reckon they would need to scramble some jets to intercept it?

If the aircraft detected are actually civilian aircraft and the chinese deduced that the threat level is low, then it might be alright. But this is a fighter... and on a fighter, there might have live missiles... and who know if the intent are actually to just stray in or with more malicious intent.
 
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