antiterror13
Brigadier
Well ... SMIC hasn't jumped to 14nm yet (perhaps in 2019) .. and if the US ban the sale of equipment to China, I am not sure whether SMIC could produce 14nm process node ? anyone?
News on China's scientific and technological development.
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Well ... SMIC hasn't jumped to 14nm yet (perhaps in 2019) .. and if the US ban the sale of equipment to China, I am not sure whether SMIC could produce 14nm process node ? anyone?
Jura The idiot
General
The one equipment and probably the most important one is "optical lithography" machine. The foreign companies in the area are ASML (Netherland), Ultratech (US), Canon and Nikon (Japan). There are Chinese companies doing it as well, but the best is ASML. The US government may not be able to order ASML to ban the sale, but Netherland may not allow ASML to sell their best to China according to Wassenaar Arrangement (the successor of infamous CoCom 巴黎统筹委员会).
In the end, things like this (selling best stuff to China) is not something new that Trump made today. It has been there since 1949, and is still in place today. The reason is not just military or political, it is also economical. Western countries and even Russia (today) will never sell their best to China, just to prevent China to move ahead of them. They will usually open up the sale when China begin to make on her own. There is a rumor saying that ASML has just entered cooperation with SMIC recently after 华中科技大学（Huazhong University of Science and Technology) developed 7nm tech.
To summarize, outright ban like Trump is not really worse than low-key ban, withhold the best, extremely high price, discriminative price, delay of delivery, bad after-sale support, lack or missing of user manual, delay of training etc.
A bit old, but good info on the Matrix 2000 DSP (Intel Xeon Phi alternative):
A Look at What’s in Store for China’s Tianhe-2A Supercomputer
February 14, 2018
The field of competitors looking to bring to the market is a somewhat crowded one, but the United States and China continue to be the ones that most eyes are on.
It’s a clash of an established global superpower and another one on the rise, and one that that envelopes a struggle for economic, commercial and military advantages and a healthy dose of national pride. And because of these two countries, the – which to a large extent to this point has been more about discussion, theory and promise – will come into sharper focus.
For the United States, that will come in the form of Summit, a pre-exascale supercomputer that is currently being put together at the Department of Energy’s Oak Ridge National Lab that will be powered by IBM’s Power9 processors and more than 25,000 of Nvidia’s powerful . The system, which is due to come online in the spring, will deliver more than 200 peak petaflops of performance, which easily would make it the fastest supercomputer on the Top500 list. Currently sitting atop the list is China’s massive Sunway TaihuLight, a supercomputer that reaches 125.4 petaflops of peak performance and is powered by homegrown Sunway many-core SW26010 processors rather than chips from , Nvidia and AMD.
The TaihuLight supercomputer and the Sunway chips are part of a larger effort by Chinese officials to have more of the components in such systems built by Chinese companies, both as a way of growing the technology capabilities of those companies as well as an answer to a move by U.S. officials several years ago to ban the sale of Xeon Phi many-core processors to certain Chinese institutions that are using technology not only for scientific research but also military purposes. China has announced plans to spend $150 billion over 10 years to grow the country’s chip-making capabilities.
As the United States moves forward with Summit, China also is preparing to launch the that will be based on three different architectures. The first of those will be the , a hybrid supercomputer that will use a mix of Intel Xeon processors and the Chinese made and is expected to go online this year. That will be a change for the Tianhe line of the systems. The original Tianhe-1A system, which was launched in 2010 and helped establish China as a player in the supercomputer and HPC field, ran on a combination of CPUs and GPUs. According to China, the Tianhe-2 system, which went online in 2013 at the National Supercomputer Center in Guangzhou, China, and until it was deposed by TaihuLight in 2015, runs both Xeon chips and Intel Xeon Phi “Knights Corner” co-processors.
According to a presentation from Yutong Lu, professor at the school of computer science at Sun Yat-Sen University (SYSU) and The National University of Defense Technology (NUDT) and director of the National Supercomputer Center in Guangzhou, Tianhe-2A (also known as Milkyway-2A) will be biggest and faster than its predecessor. While the Tianhe-2 has 16,000 nodes and a performance of 54.9 petaflops, Tianhe-2A will come with 17,792 nodes – each with two Xeon “Ivy Bridge” CPUs and two Matrix-2000 accelerators – and will deliver a performance of 94.97 petaflops.
As can be seen in the chart below, the new system will also have more storage and memory capacity, faster interconnect and greater power efficiency, and will use customized OpenMP and OpenCL software optimized for the Matrix-2000.
The system, which was and will be installed at the National Supercomputer Center in Tianjin, will include an accelerator blade that will hold four Matrix-2000 chips, an I/O chipset and a 14G network.
The Matrix-2000 itself will have 128 cores and will be packaged into four super nodes, with each super node comprising eight clusters and each cluster holding four cores. It will include eight DDR4-2400 channels and an X16 PCIE 3.0 EP port.
The accelerator cores will have eight-12 in-order pipeline stages and two 256-bit vector functional units. More details are below:
The United States and China aren’t the only figures in the . As we’ve talked about before, Fujitsu is that will be powered by customized chips based on Arm’s 64-bit architecture and will be Japan’s entrance into the field when it goes online toward the end of 2021. In addition, at the SC17 show in November 2017, members of the European Union’s HPC community outlined plans for that region to through a range of initiatives, including Horizon 2020, EuroHPC and Partnership for Advanced Computing in Europe, or PRACE. The goal is to launch two pre-exascale systems between 2021 and 2022 and two exascale systems in 2023.
However, it will be the United States and China that come out with pre-exascale systems this year, with exascale systems coming in a few years. The United States, through its Exascale Computing Project, is aiming for the first of its exascale systems – dubbed A21 and based on Cray and Intel technologies – to come online in 2021 at Argonne National Lab. China is planning for the first of its exascale supercomputers for 2020.
A Look at What’s in Store for China’s Tianhe-2A Supercomputer
February 14, 2018
The field of competitors looking to bring to the market is a somewhat crowded one, but the United States and China continue to be the ones that most eyes are on.
It’s a clash of an established global superpower and another one on the rise, and one that that envelopes a struggle for economic, commercial and military advantages and a healthy dose of national pride. And because of these two countries, the – which to a large extent to this point has been more about discussion, theory and promise – will come into sharper focus.
For the United States, that will come in the form of Summit, a pre-exascale supercomputer that is currently being put together at the Department of Energy’s Oak Ridge National Lab that will be powered by IBM’s Power9 processors and more than 25,000 of Nvidia’s powerful . The system, which is due to come online in the spring, will deliver more than 200 peak petaflops of performance, which easily would make it the fastest supercomputer on the Top500 list. Currently sitting atop the list is China’s massive Sunway TaihuLight, a supercomputer that reaches 125.4 petaflops of peak performance and is powered by homegrown Sunway many-core SW26010 processors rather than chips from , Nvidia and AMD.
The TaihuLight supercomputer and the Sunway chips are part of a larger effort by Chinese officials to have more of the components in such systems built by Chinese companies, both as a way of growing the technology capabilities of those companies as well as an answer to a move by U.S. officials several years ago to ban the sale of Xeon Phi many-core processors to certain Chinese institutions that are using technology not only for scientific research but also military purposes. China has announced plans to spend $150 billion over 10 years to grow the country’s chip-making capabilities.
As the United States moves forward with Summit, China also is preparing to launch the that will be based on three different architectures. The first of those will be the , a hybrid supercomputer that will use a mix of Intel Xeon processors and the Chinese made and is expected to go online this year. That will be a change for the Tianhe line of the systems. The original Tianhe-1A system, which was launched in 2010 and helped establish China as a player in the supercomputer and HPC field, ran on a combination of CPUs and GPUs. According to China, the Tianhe-2 system, which went online in 2013 at the National Supercomputer Center in Guangzhou, China, and until it was deposed by TaihuLight in 2015, runs both Xeon chips and Intel Xeon Phi “Knights Corner” co-processors.
According to a presentation from Yutong Lu, professor at the school of computer science at Sun Yat-Sen University (SYSU) and The National University of Defense Technology (NUDT) and director of the National Supercomputer Center in Guangzhou, Tianhe-2A (also known as Milkyway-2A) will be biggest and faster than its predecessor. While the Tianhe-2 has 16,000 nodes and a performance of 54.9 petaflops, Tianhe-2A will come with 17,792 nodes – each with two Xeon “Ivy Bridge” CPUs and two Matrix-2000 accelerators – and will deliver a performance of 94.97 petaflops.
As can be seen in the chart below, the new system will also have more storage and memory capacity, faster interconnect and greater power efficiency, and will use customized OpenMP and OpenCL software optimized for the Matrix-2000.
The system, which was and will be installed at the National Supercomputer Center in Tianjin, will include an accelerator blade that will hold four Matrix-2000 chips, an I/O chipset and a 14G network.
The Matrix-2000 itself will have 128 cores and will be packaged into four super nodes, with each super node comprising eight clusters and each cluster holding four cores. It will include eight DDR4-2400 channels and an X16 PCIE 3.0 EP port.
The accelerator cores will have eight-12 in-order pipeline stages and two 256-bit vector functional units. More details are below:
The United States and China aren’t the only figures in the . As we’ve talked about before, Fujitsu is that will be powered by customized chips based on Arm’s 64-bit architecture and will be Japan’s entrance into the field when it goes online toward the end of 2021. In addition, at the SC17 show in November 2017, members of the European Union’s HPC community outlined plans for that region to through a range of initiatives, including Horizon 2020, EuroHPC and Partnership for Advanced Computing in Europe, or PRACE. The goal is to launch two pre-exascale systems between 2021 and 2022 and two exascale systems in 2023.
However, it will be the United States and China that come out with pre-exascale systems this year, with exascale systems coming in a few years. The United States, through its Exascale Computing Project, is aiming for the first of its exascale systems – dubbed A21 and based on Cray and Intel technologies – to come online in 2021 at Argonne National Lab. China is planning for the first of its exascale supercomputers for 2020.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Here is Cambrion Al chip
China releases its first cloud AI chip
Source:Xinhua Published: 2018/5/4 9:37:01
Cambricon Technology CEO Chen Tianshi introduces the cloud AI chip MLU100 in Shanghai, east China, May 3, 2018. China's first cloud artificial intelligence (AI) chip was released by the Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS) on Thursday in Shanghai. The cloud chip MLU100, developed by Cambricon Technology, will have accurate and fast big data processing ability, especially in image and voice search methods. (Xinhua/Jin Liwang)
Cambricon Technology CEO Chen Tianshi shows a pair of MLU100 cloud AI chips in Shanghai, east China, May 3, 2018. China's first cloud artificial intelligence (AI) chip was released by the Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS) on Thursday in Shanghai. The cloud chip MLU100, developed by Cambricon Technology, will have accurate and fast big data processing ability, especially in image and voice search methods. (Xinhua/Jin Liwang)
Photo taken on May 3, 2018 shows the cloud AI chip MLU100 in Shanghai, east China. China's first cloud artificial intelligence (AI) chip was released by the Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS) on Thursday in Shanghai. The cloud chip MLU100, developed by Cambricon Technology, will have accurate and fast big data processing ability, especially in image and voice search methods. (Xinhua/Jin Liwang)
China's first cloud artificial intelligence (AI) chip was released by the Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS) on Thursday in Shanghai.
The cloud chip MLU100, developed by Cambricon Technology, will have accurate and fast big data processing ability, especially in image and voice search methods.
The cloud chips are mainly used in cloud computing, including servers and data centers. The MLU100 is powerful and can complete complicated cloud intelligence tasks, according to the CAS.
The cloud chip supports "deep learning," or neural networks that mimic human learning. Deep learning is a type of machine learning involving algorithms that can analyze data, recognize patterns and make predictions.
China releases its first cloud AI chip
Source:Xinhua Published: 2018/5/4 9:37:01
Cambricon Technology CEO Chen Tianshi introduces the cloud AI chip MLU100 in Shanghai, east China, May 3, 2018. China's first cloud artificial intelligence (AI) chip was released by the Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS) on Thursday in Shanghai. The cloud chip MLU100, developed by Cambricon Technology, will have accurate and fast big data processing ability, especially in image and voice search methods. (Xinhua/Jin Liwang)
Cambricon Technology CEO Chen Tianshi shows a pair of MLU100 cloud AI chips in Shanghai, east China, May 3, 2018. China's first cloud artificial intelligence (AI) chip was released by the Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS) on Thursday in Shanghai. The cloud chip MLU100, developed by Cambricon Technology, will have accurate and fast big data processing ability, especially in image and voice search methods. (Xinhua/Jin Liwang)
Photo taken on May 3, 2018 shows the cloud AI chip MLU100 in Shanghai, east China. China's first cloud artificial intelligence (AI) chip was released by the Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS) on Thursday in Shanghai. The cloud chip MLU100, developed by Cambricon Technology, will have accurate and fast big data processing ability, especially in image and voice search methods. (Xinhua/Jin Liwang)
China's first cloud artificial intelligence (AI) chip was released by the Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS) on Thursday in Shanghai.
The cloud chip MLU100, developed by Cambricon Technology, will have accurate and fast big data processing ability, especially in image and voice search methods.
The cloud chips are mainly used in cloud computing, including servers and data centers. The MLU100 is powerful and can complete complicated cloud intelligence tasks, according to the CAS.
The cloud chip supports "deep learning," or neural networks that mimic human learning. Deep learning is a type of machine learning involving algorithms that can analyze data, recognize patterns and make predictions.
antiterror13
Brigadier
Very good. What advance level Chinese companies in "optical lithography" machine? who are they?
antiterror13
Brigadier
Very interesting to see which company actually fabricating Matrix-2000. This article below says "The Matrix-2000 is said to be fabricated on a leading edge process technology in China, although the exact process info was not disclosed" ... interesting also to know what process node is used to fabricate Matrix-2000
The same thing for MLU100 cloud AI chip
@Hendrik_2000 , @taxiya and @N00813
The same thing for MLU100 cloud AI chip
@Hendrik_2000 , @taxiya and @N00813
The MLU100 is slated to use TSMC's 7nm process
Looking at the specs of the Matrix-2000 probably 28nm, HLMC has a 28nm foundry.
Before we go full conspiracy theory,
- SMIC is one of ASML's best customers they buy so much ASML kit, that they negotiated a volume discount!
- Members of the Wassenaar Arrangement don't have veto powers
- The semi-conductor processes that China already has is more than good enough for military applications where feature size is much less important than robustness so it's a commercial not military issue.
Access to kit is only part of the equation building out a suitable eco-system is the key part
This PDF provides excellent summary of the issues and plans from a Chinese/Global perspective
I don't quite understand what you are trying to say because I am aware of what you have said and my post was not in contradiction to what you just said.
What I have said was "withholding selling top equipment is a common practice". You may see this saying as conspiracy theory, but I have seen this with my own eyes because I was once involved in works of such banning to sell to countries under CoCom. It was civilian product. Wassenaar may be less restrictive to CoCom, but it is the successor no doubt. When needed it will be used by anyone. Doesn't Intel has a large share in ASML? And Intel will be subjected to US jurisdiction?