News on China's scientific and technological development.

Discussion in 'Members' Club Room' started by Quickie, Dec 9, 2008.

  1. Equation
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    Equation Senior Member

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    This is not good for the US because it won't be able to attract and retain anymore overseas talent.
     
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  2. PiSigma
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    PiSigma "the engineer"

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    US still trains and retains plenty of global talent. Just because a whole bunch of Chinese students are going back doesn't mean Indian students, Latin students, African students are going back as well.

    The US is still one of the best places to live and work. I don't think I need to go into details why. Even with the glass ceilings and other possible problems, the US have a lot more potential than most countries out there.

    It is only because China is fairly successful now that Chinese students are going back. But other nations are not quite there yet, so US is still where they will stay and contribute.
     
  3. vesicles
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    vesicles Senior Member

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    In my opinion, the glass ceiling is partially self-imposed by those supposedly under its influence. Much of it comes from lack of confidence, IMHO. Those who don't care about the glass ceiling seem to be doing just fine. This is of course my own experience.
     
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  4. PiSigma
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    PiSigma "the engineer"

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    I somewhat agree. A lot of the new immigrants don't have the cultural background to advance to managerial positions. Being a good technical worker doesn't mean he/she have the skills to move to lead roles.

    I find those that are second generation immigrants or even those that immigrated as children get promoted to managerial roles just as much.
     
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  5. solarz
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    solarz Senior Member

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    It's not about culture or confidence. It's a matter of language proficiency. Management and leadership positions require a strong command of language that is often unattainable by first generation immigrants.
     
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  6. vesicles
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    vesicles Senior Member

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    I agree. However, who is the judge for one's language proficiency? How do you grade/evaluate someone's English skill? It's a very subjective thing. And It often starts with the said immigrant. Lack of confidence usually cause them to underestimate/misjudge their language skills.

    My dad was thinking about getting a faculty position after his postdoc fellowship but ultimately decided to go into industry because he didn't think his English was good enough. Yet, I know several Chinese professors in his age and with similar background speak far worse English than my dad. They have been professors just fine. I actually took a math class taught by a Japanese professor in college. My Goodness! No one in class could understand what he was saying... yet, he seemed to be doing just fine (a tenured full professor with a handful of students to mentor).

    So it's all about your own confidence. Of course, I'm talking about those who have the potential to do it. Someone who has no prior knowledge of English whatsoever obviously has no chance of getting a managerial position, no matter how confident this individual is.
     
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  7. solarz
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    solarz Senior Member

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    I can't comment about Academia, but based on my interactions with managers and execs, you need to be able to "spin" things, and you can only do that with a good mastery of the language.
     
  8. Equation
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    Equation Senior Member

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    For now but not forever. Pretty soon the immigrants would not want to stay for long when glass ceilings, social and racial problems provides barriers in itself. On top of that the local natural born non immigrant children are NOT a viable replacement for those lost skills as the immigrant and their children no longer want to participate in such a prejudice environment. With a rising right wing groups who opposed to immigrants and lack of jobs "lost to outsourcing" I doubt that trend will be reversing anytime soon.
     
  9. ahho
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    ahho Junior Member

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    A lot of Chinese students are returning to China, because there is a lot more opportunity for them and smaller competition. In US you are competing with different demographics of people in the same field. In China you are only competing people with the same skills and knowledge of the filed, however, you language skills and experience of going abroad can be a big plus in getting a job back home.

    In regarding to managerial roles, that is quite correct. I do see a lot of example in the banking or financial sector. In some sectors though, it would be different. This could be due to first generation immigrants telling second generation to not seek employment in certain fields, like mining, construction or logistics, which cause lower representation in those sectors
     
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  10. Blackstone
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    Blackstone Senior Member

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    You might have something on cultural background, although Vesicles also has a point in confidence. I've seen both at play in the workplace. On the other hand, the Silicon Valley has its own unique ethos that can tax native born workers, engineers, and managers too. I've seen plenty of folks with MBA degrees that can't manage their way out of wet paper bags, and I've also seen people without MBAs leading their teams or departments with excellent business acumen. That's the case across genders, age, and race. In the end, it's hard to generalize and you have to take people one at a time.
     
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