New Type98/99 MBT thread

[TerraN_EmpirE]

Type 99A is still fairly new. The PLA went through a rapid I mean rapid development from Type 98G to today. To expect a sudden totally new vehicle to roll out is a bit much.

If we did see a new tank I suspect it would be a farther upgrade of the current tank. It's just a matter of practicality.

 

[Sunhead_from_Arya]

Type 99A was the latest development and that happened not too long ago. It's probably as good as a late 3rd gen tank can get for the weight, size, and price class. If there are any developments in progress for new MBTs, you can bet it'll be a next gen type like how T-14 is a step above a T-90M. For this, China will almost surely wait until all the other players come out with their 4th gen MBTs and army vehicles so that the designers have some knowledge of what they will be up against and what they need to consider and defeat. So until US army shows their hand, Norinco will probably only stick with undisclosed concept studies. China doesn't quite have the economic luxury of forging ahead and leading in a relatively trivial field. It is a costly exercise. PLA has no real intentions for invading anyone and so any fighting involving PLA is home ground/ region and it has ridiculous size advantage there for conventional warfare.

Just in russian media i seen, that China might be develop it's new tank, wich would a some like russian T-95 etc projects in 2019/20y. But i agree Type-99A is a new and mighty, and technically 99A is a T-90M equivalent, so it's seems China will not a need new design.

 

[Biscuits]

Just in russian media i seen, that China might be develop it's new tank, wich would a some like russian T-95 etc projects in 2019/20y. But i agree Type-99A is a new and mighty, and technically 99A is a T-90M equivalent, so it's seems China will not a need new design.

Being a newer tank, the T-90M looks flashier, but it is also quite a bit lighter than the 99A. It remains to be seen if the Armata 125mm reaches the performance of the ZPT-98. The new ATGM appears to be superior, though China never spent effort on tank launched ATGM to begin with, due to confidence in normal rounds.

Must say that it is very good looking at least. Looks like the 99A but more futuristic.

Regarding the Type 99A, how much do they actually cost? Multiple articles claim it didn’t enter service across the board due to high costs. How bad is it? Like M1A2 bad, or Leclerc bad?

 

[gelgoog]

China, unlike Russia, is more suited to a heavy/light tank formation than using the same main battle tank design everywhere.
The smaller tank can be used in the south and in mountainous regions, possibly also in amphibious assaults, while the heavy tank would be mostly for northern China and protecting the coastal areas from incursions. In fact this is basically the way their tank forces are setup today.
Then there are the IFVs with 100mm guns and the like. I think if it was me I would replace that layout with a 40mm or 50mm cannon with missiles. The cannon has just too low a rate of fire for a vehicle with so little armor.

I think I have said here already what I think should be the replacement for the heavy Type 99 like tank. But other than that there is the light tank equivalent. Just look at the Japanese Type 10 tank. I think China should have something at least as good as that in case they needed to invade Taiwan.

 

[Tetrach]

It remains to be seen if the Armata 125mm reaches the performance of the ZPT-98.

You seem very confident of this gun. Last time I checked it had nothing particular.

 

[Biscuits]

You seem very confident of this gun. Last time I checked it had nothing particular.

Except higher bore pressure than the Rheinmetall 120mm, which by itself has higher bore pressure than the Russian 125mm.

Source:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

It’s not very fancy, but it translates to higher penetration and higher projectile speed.

 

[ougoah]

You seem very confident of this gun. Last time I checked it had nothing particular.

ZPT-98 is an improvement over the standard gun that used on Type 96 that is derived from 2A46. It's manufacturing involves processes not found on any 2A46 like electroslag remelting to name just one that's been publicised in the past. ZPT-98 manufacturing uses a lot of techniques found in Rheinmetall guns but has longer caliber (barrel length), larger rounds, higher bore pressure, and higher muzzle velocity just compared to L44 120mm. Which is on paper a bit better than 2A46 already. Rheinmetall's L55 120mm improves on these specs but with a longer and heavier gun to control and spin around.

The decision to use 125mm is because at least in the past, Soviet and Chinese munitions were of lower quality and accuracy compared to NATO's. To make up for this, they decided to use a bigger caliber for increased kinetic energy (assuming same propellant between a Chinese 120mm and 125mm) and the ability to launch Soviet ATGM from the tank just so the range can match and in this case exceed that of NATO tanks with better rounds.

Now everyone's got >125mm guns lined up in case they need to be adopted but for the moment, 120mm and 125mm apparently are still decent enough to not justify the huge change. ZPT-98 is nothing amazing at all but it is not a 2A46. The barrel length is also slightly longer.

It's possible 2A46M versions used on the latest T-90M already has made all these improvements and maxed out the performance of the design. T-14's 2A82 should be on another level of performance. Keep in mind that FCS and munitions do a lot more for the gun than the raw specs. Another factor we haven't considered is the lifespan of the barrel. It's possible the ZPT-98 sacrifices a bit more life for a more powerful shot to ensure penetration of heavy MBTs. Against softer targets of 40-50T ranges, I'm sure even 105mm can do critical damage if ERA has already been defeated. Type 99 with ZPT-98 is a bit overkill for lighter MBTs.

 

[Biscuits]

@ougoah
The ZPT-98 IS the gun on the Type 96. They are the one and same.

The 2A82 is an upgraded version of the 2A46M5, it isn’t a redesign.

We haven’t seen anything concrete on it, so it could theoretically outperform the ZPT-98 and the Rheinmetall 120mm, but given how badly the 2A46M5 performs compared to ZPT-98, it would take quite a leap to get there.

According to Wikipedia in Chinese, the barrel
is replaced after 700 shots.

Traditionally there was a need for this type of tank erring on the side of overkill against heavier MBTs because China expected a soviet invasion or 2nd Korean War.

 

[ougoah]

@ougoah
The ZPT-98 IS the gun on the Type 96. They are the one and same.

The 2A82 is an upgraded version of the 2A46M5, it isn’t a redesign.

We haven’t seen anything concrete on it, so it could theoretically outperform the ZPT-98 and the Rheinmetall 120mm, but given how badly the 2A46M5 performs compared to ZPT-98, it would take quite a leap to get there.

According to Wikipedia in Chinese, the barrel
is replaced after 700 shots.

Traditionally there was a need for this type of tank erring on the side of overkill against heavier MBTs because China expected a soviet invasion or 2nd Korean War.

I'm almost certain the Type 96 uses a derivative of 2A46 and not ZPT-98. The ZPT-98 is slightly longer than the gun on the Type 96 and costlier to produce. Can't be bothered finding those sources again to be honest so don't take my word for it but that's how I remembered the difference between Type 96 and Type 99, apart from the hull, engines etc.

 

[Biscuits]

I'm almost certain the Type 96 uses a derivative of 2A46 and not ZPT-98. The ZPT-98 is slightly longer than the gun on the Type 96 and costlier to produce. Can't be bothered finding those sources again to be honest so don't take my word for it but that's how I remembered the difference between Type 96 and Type 99, apart from the hull, engines etc.

China never acquired the 2A46, so it would be a little hard for them to install it on the 96A. Besides, maintaining two different types of gun would be unnecessary complicated.

ZPT-98 can come in different lengths, IIRC L50 and L48 have been put in service.

The main difference between 99A and 96B is that the latter is much lighter and relies on ERA to be able to tank it’s own rounds, so it’s more like a Russian tank.