New Type98/99 MBT thread

Discussion in 'Army' started by Dongfeng, Nov 10, 2005.

  1. vincelee
    Offline

    vincelee Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2005
    Messages:
    548
    Likes Received:
    0
    is the T-72 style autoloader confirmed on ZTZ-99? I don't think a picture has been released.
     
  2. ChinaWall65
    Offline

    ChinaWall65 Banned Idiot

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    I never said Chinese tanks are 100% indigenous, and non of the modern tanks today are 100% indigenous. Even the T-72 is based off of early Soviet Tanks, which are based off of WWII tanks, which are based off of WWI tanks.
    Comparing the Leopard's style armour and all other examples of similarities between modern tanks from my previous are legitimate analogies that fits under your logic, because what you are saying is that because there are few features on the Type 99's hull that are similar to the T-72's hull, Type 99 could not possibly be an indigenous design, but really a derivative of the T-72. This isn't logical, you are comparing few aspects of the Type 99 to the T-72, however you are concluding the entire tank, Type 99, as a derivative of the entire tank, T-72. You just can't do that, its like surveying Moms Against Drunk Driving about "drinking and drive" to represent the opinion of the entire nation. Having the similarity based on the looks of Type 99 and T-72 that you concluded doesn't mean the entire design of Type 99 is not indigenous...lastly, do you realize that over 96% percent of Human DNA and Chimpanzees DNA are similar; but the difference between Humans and Chimpanzees is that Humans are hundreds of times more advanced than Chimpanzees...I'm not advocating for China, if you checked my profile, you will see that i'm in North Carolina; i'm simply pointing out your flawed logic saying that Type 99 isn't indigeous because certain parts of its hull looks like certain parts of T-72's hull.
     
  3. jackbh
    Offline

    jackbh Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    0
    To say something like this is to over simplify things. Unless you are an engineer doing actual work on the Type 98, you won't know what exactly the design is. Just by looking at the physical difference or similarity is just not very accurate.
    Sure, I agree that there are probably some design cues on the Type 98 that are from T-72, but there are probably more things that are very different than the T-72. Looks can really be decieving. Thing could be more complex than they look.
     
  4. Gollevainen
    Offline

    Gollevainen Colonel
    VIP Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2005
    Messages:
    4,553
    Likes Received:
    23
    I never said it's simply just down to the looks. And i think we all agree that the Tank is not direct copy of anything, just continious development of existing tanks having imput from T-72. The physical evidence is undenyable. It may sound simplify but it realy isen't. The biggest definition features of any tank is in it's automotive parts, turret and the gun. And from Type 98 we can clearly see the automotive parts and state their undenyable similarityes to T-72. It's simple and it's true. The engine as we known is quite differnece than the one in T-72. And so is the turret, but the gun and the autoloader are based to the ones in russian tanks. We have seen pictures of it (posted in threads that were closed becouse of flaming battles...) and I've been inside T-72 and I even first tough those pics were taken inside of T-72 so...

    Well like i said we have seen the pics of the gun, and the turret isen't big enough to field Bustle autoloader so it have to be the carusel type.

    You hit the nail there...Thats what i have said all the time, the 'chimp' and 'humans' are basicly the same...only when other 'humans' looks the thing from behind 'human' eyeclasses, they tend to see only the differences, not the similarityes....but when a Pig looks both of them, he sees how stricingly similar they are...guess im the piggy...and no one have ever denied that the 'human' is equally dum as the 'chimp';) :p
     
  5. ChinaWall65
    Offline

    ChinaWall65 Banned Idiot

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    no, you saw pics of parts of the gun and very limited parts of the inside of the turret...PLA wouldn't release photos as sensitive like the entire inside of the turret, or majority of the inside...so your statement about the turret isn't big enough is just pure speculation.

    think about what you are saying...just because human's DNA and chimp's DNA are the same doesn't mean humans and chimps are the same
     
  6. Gollevainen
    Offline

    Gollevainen Colonel
    VIP Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2005
    Messages:
    4,553
    Likes Received:
    23
    I have seen pics of the gun, and the turret is just too small its not a speculation, its plain physical fact...no way there can be any other means of autoloader, than caruzel one....again you just want to see the differences, and live in denial over the crucial similarityes.

    chimp and humans are basicly same...humans tend to be bit clewer and have managed to greate huge illusion that sometimes fools somebody to think humans are somewhat special...but enough whit this topic, you clearly must have noticed my story as metaphorical
     
  7. Fabrice
    Offline

    Fabrice Just Hatched
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello

    My first post on this forum I apologize for my English. I have new data on ZTZ-96LO experimental type main battle tank of people’s liberation army of 2005. A low observable main battle tanks has sloping sides and rubber skirts to evade radar and laser.
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Gollevainen
    Offline

    Gollevainen Colonel
    VIP Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2005
    Messages:
    4,553
    Likes Received:
    23
    ÖRHM...hate to brake it to you but that's CGI, actually not even very good CGI....
     
  9. ChinaWall65
    Offline

    ChinaWall65 Banned Idiot

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    do you have any evidence to back up your claim, like blueprints of the turret, official reports, etc? if not, then you can't simply make an absolute statement that it is impossible to fit a bustle mounted autoloader...i don't think you design tank turrets or autoloaders, so if i were you, i wouldn't make any assumptions. making conclusions based on pictures of turret taken by photographers about that the turret is not big enough is speculation, its not fact yet unless you have some evidence you are not sharing; you can look up the definition of speculation on Black's Law dictionary, if you still won't change your mind...

    stop saying i'm in denial, first of all, i'm not and second of all, how is it related to the dicussion of type 99? you have misunderstood my point...there are few features on the type 99 that is similar to the t-72, but that doesn't make the entire design of type 99 not indigenous. like i said before, abram's gun and leopard's gun are copies of each other, but that doesn't mean abram isn't an indigenous design...this is the same thing with type 99 and t-72, there hull looks similar; other than the fact that type 99's hull is one meter's longer and that everything INSIDE the hull is obviously different from the t-72's...

    you are right, i don't need to say anything more to demonstrate the flaws in your thinking.
     
    #119 ChinaWall65, Apr 17, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2006
  10. planeman
    Offline

    planeman Senior Member
    VIP Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2006
    Messages:
    1,594
    Likes Received:
    9
    Looks like it applies similar principles to the AMX-30 stealth tank:
    [​IMG]
    I can see why it might look like a CGI even if it's real. Do you have the picture in a better resolution?
     
Loading...

Share This Page