eecsmaster
Junior Member
CAC doesn't plan DACT. PLAAF does. These guys are a lot more objective when it comes to hardware.
*New J-10 Thread*
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Well again the same problem, how would you know that? Because they told you? There isn`t any reliable way to check these claims
maozedong
Banned Idiot
China always have real military against training it's self, PLAAF already tryed the J-10 VS Su-27,Su-30. but the military exercises with foreign country is different, I thing in the exercises J-10 will training strike some target with Russia fighters but they won't training strike together, otherwise so many rumours will appear.
we can review China-Russia 2005 exercises, so many rumours in the media.and chinese ship 052b ( 168 ) and Russia ship 956E Sov never training against each other.
ff
There should be a small number of J-10s in the CFTC as well.
It remains unconfirmed beyond a doubt on the status of the 130th and 132nd so I would give those two a question mark.
131st gets a check.
You mean the 7th or 8th. I was thinking it was the 8th but there is a rumor they went J-8F. No visual confirmation for that however.
Likely to be the 2nd, since the 3rd is the one with the J-8Fs.
Probably the 5th, though I heard a rumor they are also going J-8F.
Sales? J-10 isn't cleared for export yet.
Considering the number of regiments that have Su-27/Su-30/J-11 vs. the number of J-10 regiments, the impact on J-10s beating Sues it would have on the morale of the PLAAF would be negative. This is especially considering that the J-10s wer acting as Aggressors or Blue Flag, simulating ROCAF forces.
The Su-27/J-11 is every bit as "your equipment" to China as the J-10. Regardless of its origin, its a plane that is made in China now. For that matter, there are officials and officers who have a stake on that basket now. The PLAAF hierarchy has a carefully concieved long term plan of a hi low mix of the Sues, J-10s and whatsoever, but these exercises threaten to upset these plans. Nonetheless it looks like J-11s are going to be continued to be built. Updated if they were.
And no one would disagree that the avionics of the Su-27 sucks relative to this modern age.
Just think of what you are claiming right now. What you are saying is basically equivalent to Lockmart planning DACT for USAF so that F-16s get an advantage over the Boeing produced F-15s. SAC which produces J-11 was the more powerful (and probably still is) of the two major aircraft companies in China when the DACT were held. They loose out a lot of contract because of the results. Basically, I read that in the plaaf orders for the 11th 5 year plan (2006-2010), J-10 has a huge edge over J-11. Which is interesting, since when J-11B comes out, it will equipped with the same generation (probably even newer) of avionics/weapons than J-10.
You do realize they invested more money in purchasing the licensed production of J-11 alone than the amount they spent on developing J-10, right? If you include the import of sk/mkk, their investment in flankers far outweighs their investment on J-10.
Most people on other forums don't follow this plane at all. Half of them still believe that everything China got is imported or copied from Russians. Many of the arguments for J-10 or J-11 have been talked about on these J-10 threads. You can definitely find them.
Yeah, I personally think those are more or less right. We don't know exactly how many 44th division regiments have J-10. I would guess 2 right now. As for 2nd division, I'm pretty sure it's Liuzhou, because people from Liuzhou are claiming that they have seen J-10s.
FugitiveVisions
Junior Member
Two quick question:
1). How many J10s are rumored to have been ordered in the five year plan as opposed to J11s?
2). Why do you think that there are two regiments of J10s in the 44th even though we've only seen 50550 through 50756 after the renumbering? (I think that #26 in the two minute clip is not 50256 because #22 that follows the shot shows 41252, and they were taken in the same airfield around the same time of the year, because the color of the grass looked the same. )
1). How many J10s are rumored to have been ordered in the five year plan as opposed to J11s?
2). Why do you think that there are two regiments of J10s in the 44th even though we've only seen 50550 through 50756 after the renumbering? (I think that #26 in the two minute clip is not 50256 because #22 that follows the shot shows 41252, and they were taken in the same airfield around the same time of the year, because the color of the grass looked the same. )
for the first one, no exact number was mentionned, but just that it was a huge difference.
for the second one, we've seen 50150.
FugitiveVisions
Junior Member
That makes a lot of sense, because if we assume that there is only one regiment in the 44th and that one regiment worth of J10s are pumped out every year, there would be a missing regiment.
By the fall of 2004 (the picture of #10 was saved on my computer in Sept.), the first regiment of J10s in the 44th should have finished converting.
The 3rd division should have finished its conversion around the spring of 2006, since a batch of 3rd division J10 pictures appeared on the internet in Feb. and March of 2006.
If we go by conservative estimates that only ten J10s were produced in 2003, those that went on to complete the FTTC regiment along with the preproduction planes, it's safe to assume that between the fall of 2004 and the spring of 2006 (~16+ months), either one or two regiments of J-10s were built. IMO it's more logical to assume that two regiments were built during these months for an average of around 3 planes per month rather than only one regiment for an average of 1.6 per month. It is even more likely if you relax the assumption that only 10 planes were built in 2003.
As far as rumors in 2006 of the 1st and 2nd divisions converting around the same time, I suspect that each regiment received an initial batch to cut the acclimation process by half.
FugitiveVisions
Junior Member
~12 prototypes + ~10 preproduction models + ~10 FTTC planes + ~28 x 2 44th Division planes + ~28 3nd Divison + ~28 2st Division planes + ~14 1st Division planes (due for completion sometime this year?) = ~158 J10s!
Moreover, a photograph of #62 of the 3rd Division was taken on 2/16/06. There were rumors that it was the 100th J10. If we assume that #51 is the first plane of the regiment, then #62 would be the 12th plane of that regiment. That would indicate there were 88 J10s produced prior to those going to the 3rd. If we add up the prototypes (12), the preproduction models (10), the FTTC planes (10) and two regiments in the 44th (56), that gives us 88 planes. Of course, the exact numbers are still very much up to debate. However, this does provide us a number that's around the ball park, if the rumor is true.
It's somewhat surprising that we have not heard of new engine contracts, considering that the current stock is just about to run out.
However, if the first engine contract was only for 54 engine, how is it possible to convert the second regiment in the 44th before the 2nd engine contract was signed in August of 2005?
Moreover, a photograph of #62 of the 3rd Division was taken on 2/16/06. There were rumors that it was the 100th J10. If we assume that #51 is the first plane of the regiment, then #62 would be the 12th plane of that regiment. That would indicate there were 88 J10s produced prior to those going to the 3rd. If we add up the prototypes (12), the preproduction models (10), the FTTC planes (10) and two regiments in the 44th (56), that gives us 88 planes. Of course, the exact numbers are still very much up to debate. However, this does provide us a number that's around the ball park, if the rumor is true.
It's somewhat surprising that we have not heard of new engine contracts, considering that the current stock is just about to run out.
However, if the first engine contract was only for 54 engine, how is it possible to convert the second regiment in the 44th before the 2nd engine contract was signed in August of 2005?
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