*New J-10 Thread*

[crobato]

some new pics I hope someone can tell me why this model of the J-10 has 2 FLIR pods. Normally it is supposed to have only one and the other space is taken by a laser designator.

Maybe its just to show that both hardpoints have the interfaces that can support the FLIR pods.

 

[crobato]

"The Jian-10 is superior to the SU-27 but inferior to the SU-30," a military source who spoke on condition of anonymity told Reuters, referring to Russia's Sukhoi fighter jets.

Its a really funny quote, considering how China stopped the procurement of Su-30MKKs in the same year J-10s went into service. Furthermore, China's most elite Su-30 formation, the 3rd Division, has placed its J-10 regiment in lead status, while pilots brandished J-10 logos as their new division logo.

If the J-10 is inferior to the Su-30, the PLAAF certainly doesn't act like it. The J-10 would only be inferior to the Su-30MKK in terms of air to ground capabilities, not air to air.

 

[maglomanic]

Its a really funny quote, considering how China stopped the procurement of Su-30MKKs in the same year J-10s went into service. Furthermore, China's most elite Su-30 formation, the 3rd Division, has placed its J-10 regiment in lead status, while pilots brandished J-10 logos as their new division logo.

If the J-10 is inferior to the Su-30, the PLAAF certainly doesn't act like it. The J-10 would only be inferior to the Su-30MKK in terms of air to ground capabilities, not air to air.

Crobato,
What is your take on the position of J-11B in PLAAF/PLAN vis a vis J-10. While alot of attention is being showered on J-10 and we are seeing reports of Flanker's appaling performances against J-10, do you think J-10 will alter the hi-lo philosphy by encorching upon Flanker's role as hi platform in the two services?
For few reasons that make sense to me i don't think it is possible. Flankers have established tactics,standards and huge infrastructure and then their potential for long ranges with high payloads would also ensure that Flankers remain mainstay of PLAAF/PLAN (atleast one of the two if not the only mainstay).

 

[Kilo636]

Crobato,
What is your take on the position of J-11B in PLAAF/PLAN vis a vis J-10. While alot of attention is being showered on J-10 and we are seeing reports of Flanker's appaling performances against J-10, do you think J-10 will alter the hi-lo philosphy by encorching upon Flanker's role as hi platform in the two services?
For few reasons that make sense to me i don't think it is possible. Flankers have established tactics,standards and huge infrastructure and then their potential for long ranges with high payloads would also ensure that Flankers remain mainstay of PLAAF/PLAN (atleast one of the two if not the only mainstay).

I think both your statement and crobato statement makes sense.. Definitely when comes to attack,mission J-11 is the best solution. Due to its longe range and huge payload or else,PLAAF will go for J-11 series aircraft. They have long predicited going to manufacture SU-27 completely domestically. While PLAAF not interested in Su-30MKK series anymore is due to its inferior avionics and downgraded system offer by the Russian as PRC advance quickly. PRC still have great faith on J-11 series especially the J-11B with domestic radar and future home made engines. It will significantly increase the capabilities of J-11B far more than the pathetic Su-27SK. If a J-11B vs J-10 in BVR ,I will pick J-11B for larger radome possible more powerful radar in J-11B while for WVR ,a J-10 will win J-11B due to better manoeuvre with canard and small RCS..

 

[amorphous]

I think more significant is the growth of a team of engineers (from design to manufacture) with the expertise and experience of a successful project of this scale. This is probably more important than J-10 itself. What do you guys think?

 

[SampanViking]

I would have to agree. the experience of building the team and the Production R&D infrastructure is more significant then the first result.

It means more domestic advanced fighters to come, a pattern that other Chinese Aviaition companies can replicate and the promise of a very lucrative export market selling, high performance/low cost modern aircraft for the prices still associated with second hand Mig 21's and varients.

That is not to downplay the achievement of the J-10, I simply point out that their are higher stakes than simply a new aircraft.

 

[Troika]

In April 2006 the cost for each F-22A is assessed by the Government Accountability Office to be $361 million per aircraft.

Source:

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That makes the Raptor about 10-12 times the cost of a J-10?
I wonder if the Raptor is even 3 times better than a J-10.
Regardless, with the sophisticated missiles they both have, they just become expensive launch platforms.

Not sure if it is ten times better, but it could easily be three times so... as much as this sort of numerical comparison has any meaning at all. In test matches they almost always beat F-15s, I believe something ridiculous like 97% of the time.

1999年，何斌斌等第二批四名试飞员进入型号调整试飞，这是更大强度的试飞——只有飞出极限值，新型战机 的性能才能得到拓展，战斗力才能得到提升；因为是极限情况，在第三代飞机的研制过程中，国外无一例外都摔过 飞机。


I try babelfish, to translate this, who is Heibin Bin?Tq

Sources said test pilot, apparently.

 

[Chengdu J-10]

Has anyone noticed the quote that DarkEminence ""(It) marks a breakthrough in China's research and development of heavy fighter aircraft," Liu Gaozhuo, executive commander in chief of the Jian-10 program, told Xinhua. The payload of the J-10 is up to 4,500kg with its 11 hardpoints. The aircraft is both fighter and light bomber. So isn't the J-10 suppose to be a light fighter aircraft not a heavey fighter aircraft as the quote stated it was a heavey fighter aircraft?

 

[savo]

J-10

mms://winmedia.cctv.com.cn/wwwwxinwen/2007/01/wwwwxinwen_300_20070105_16.wmv

:china:

savo..Welcome to our forum! Please read the forum rules before you post again. The forum requires some sort of commentary when you post.

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/showthread.php?t=1324

bd popeye super moderator

 

[crobato]

Crobato,
What is your take on the position of J-11B in PLAAF/PLAN vis a vis J-10. While alot of attention is being showered on J-10 and we are seeing reports of Flanker's appaling performances against J-10, do you think J-10 will alter the hi-lo philosphy by encorching upon Flanker's role as hi platform in the two services?
For few reasons that make sense to me i don't think it is possible. Flankers have established tactics,standards and huge infrastructure and then their potential for long ranges with high payloads would also ensure that Flankers remain mainstay of PLAAF/PLAN (atleast one of the two if not the only mainstay).

I think its a shock for the PLAAF who has majorly invested---financially, infrastructurally, and politically---to a varied hi-lo mix. Its not in their plans to have the "lo" outperform the "hi". I believe it gravely damaged the PLAAF confidence on the Flanker type and with it, their long range modernization and development plans, e.g. Su-30MK3. And once that confidence is damaged, so does the confidence of the PLAAF in engagement against Western type fighters such as the F-16 and M2000.

I look at some of the figures tphuang posted such a 31 deg/sec turn rate instantaneous, and that's faster than the Su-27, right up to the Rafale/Typhoon scale.

I believe the fall out hasn't been fully contained yet, but I believe this may have caused a delay on the J-11B project by revising and raising its target goals.

So now the J-11B has to be pushed into being a bomber, surface weapons integration can cause more delays. If the J-11B has a more modest requirement of just A2A first, it should have been out by now. Modifications like adding canards to turn the plane into a more Su-35 configuration, might help on those turn rates. Anyway I expect the J-11 to get canards once they model the airframe to the Su-33 configuration, so the plane layout---Su-33/35 style with canards---is killing two birds with one stone.

I do think that Shenyang needs to get their J-11Bs up for a showdown with the J-10s, and then we can see the fallout from the results. Flying the J-11B would equalize any electronics and radar advantage. Given the same technology state, the larger radar on the J-11B can give a longer range advantage but that is offset by the J-11B's larger radar signature.

I'm a little concerned about the RWR on the J-11B. They better use something more advanced than an L015 Beryoza, the one on the J-10 seems more advanced and is mentioned to be a factor over its battles with the Su-27.

Where it hurts is this---the limited quota of WS-10A engines. If a plant makes 60 engines a year, what do you chose to build---60 J-10s or 30 J-11Bs out of it?

Think about the last question for a moment---that's the question that is going to befall on the PLAAF brass.