*New J-10 Thread*

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Roger604

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isthvan said:
Sorry but I cant see that hapened... Development of new gen fighter is not development of new gen bike;) ... You cant develop a fighter from model to operational aircraft in 2 years onley...

If the designs are done at this point and are being submitted for a final review, it's not impossible to get a prototype flying in about 2 year.


isthvan said:
If the RCS of JSF is not much lower than EF-2000 and SU-47 then someone in the Lockheed Martin pretty much f.... up US goverment;)... Yes jsf-s RCS is much lower then EF-s:) ...
As for mig1.44 I dont know... Mig1.42 was supposed to be soviet F22...

What is the frontal RCS of EF-2000? Su-47 Berkut?

maglomanic said:
The US themsleves just sold Paksitan JSOW and JDAMS seem to be on cards. China gets exposure to US stuff more form Israel than Pakistan (not that Paksitan will not oblige but they have even more furitful ties with Israelis in this regard).

Whoa, does China have any JDAM-like programs? I know the Chinese are really behind on bomb technology.
 
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isthvan

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Roger604 said:
If the designs are done at this point and are being submitted for a final review, it's not impossible to get a prototype flying in about 2 year.

It is not impossible to get prototype flying in about 2 years. Hard but not impossible. But prototypes are just prototypes and not mature fighters and they have tendency to crash:( . Now that would not make Chinese people all over the world proud;) !




Roger604 said:
What is the frontal RCS of EF-2000? Su-47 Berkut?

Sorry but I can`t answer that... RCS is classified, but AFIAK OKB Sukhoi claimes that Berkut`s RCS is 10x smaler then Su-27s RCS ... JSF is supposed to be true stealth fighter while EF and Su-47 are not...
 
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walter

Junior Member
vincelee said:
there is a reason why JSF went from canard to conventional. Look into JAST.

I didn't find anything stating canards were a detriment to stealth, just that they didn't offer enough of an advantage over a conventional layout and that it was decided for the JSF program, which has an emphasis on keeping cost down, that stealth capabiltiy largely negated the need for the aircraft to have the enhanced manoeuverability that canards could offer.

I keep hearing canards are bad for stealth, but i still cannot see why they would be worse than the conventional horizontal tail. All control surfaces of a stealth aircraft require special attention to design, so canards are not a show stopper for designing a stealth aircraft. Maybe the CAC J-XX design will feature canards since they have so much experience with them through the J-10, or they may opt for a conventional layout with TVC like the F-22.
 

tphuang

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Some random musing from Chinese forum. Apparently, this is posted in November 1999. I normally don't post stuff that far back obviously, but it's interesting how much of the stuff he said turned out to be ture. Also, the poster also happens to be an insider I guess or at least someone who has access to classified information of J-10.

至于歼十的隐身能力,设计时还是考虑了的。其翼身融合的设计,就考虑了隐身的需要,另外,歼十是采用了隐身涂料,至于涂料的牌号,大家就不必知道了吧,等待时间的公开吧。隐形措施一是气动布局的考虑,二是隐身涂料,举个例子,其座舱盖的镀膜对雷达波的散射率,就远高于“阵风”与EF2000,这在《飞机工程》上有专文论述。歼十采用了多项目前只有F-22采用的技术,具体数据我不便说,请谅解。
- about J-10's "stealthiness", it was considered during the design
- in the integration of wings onto the body, reducing RCS was considered
- also, J-10 does use a RAM
- stealthy measure include the layout consideration and RAM?
- for example, the canopy film's radar dispersion is far greater than Rafale and typhoon
- in a magazine, J-10 uses several techniques currently only on F-22 (this was written in 99, so JSF design had no been chosen yet)
歼十的价格比SU27要贵,这主要是其选用了新材料与新电子设备,比方说,其机身加强框与另外许多承力部件,都采用某新型钛合金;而蒙皮又大量采用了复合材料。不过,没有大批量生产,也是个涨价的原因。
- price of J-10 is more expensive than su-27, due to new material used and new electronics, talks about using certain material to strengthen the airframe and outer covering also used a large amount of composite material. Of course, low rate production is another reason for the price hike.
有关WS10的问题,我所知道的是——他是多年前的项目,本身是为一种新研型号飞机配套的;现在我可以接触到一些实际的东西,但是不能乱说,就说说在601实习的一些内容吧。当时我问一位教授,“WS10性能如何?”可惜老人家说,“这不是实习范围,我只能告诉你他的推力比AL31大,推重比在8-8.7之间,可靠性也可以,但是装到SU27上到底如何,还不好说。”当然,现在我知道这些话是实情,而且也多少知道其所用材料也比较先进,虽然比之于F119/120/AL41等还有差距,但是也算是个里程碑了。另外我也想告诉大家,新的后继发动机,也已经展开了工作,如果按计划的话是不会让大家久等的。至于航空报上的消息,我不便评论,但是,既然是公开的报道,那么由于中国的保密状况,总是要落后于时间的。而且,WS10不是他说的那种型号。雷达也是国产货,并非俄罗斯的货色,性能我不必说,你可以去查公开的《现代雷达》,只要你嗅觉灵敏,不难发现。而且我可以告诉你,矢量喷管我国的研究也开展了多年,现在也大有成果,说到应用阶段也不为过。汉和信息上的消息多是外界推测,实际上,我只能告诉你,歼十的发动机与电子设备,均为国产,发动机为606与黎明合作搞的,研究期间西发也曾参与;电子设备为613/618等所以及南京电子部14所联合搞的。如果你能看到《飞机工程》的话,老兄应该可以知道我火控系统比F16C的先进多了,仅无故障间隔时间这个指标就比F-16C的高几倍。而且其气动布局决非抄袭“狮”,是我们自己算出来的——尽管其中借鉴了一些F15系列的技术。///MAWJ:谢谢你的祝福,但我还要说,98年3~4月试飞的歼十,早非F16C/D之流所能相比!!!
- as for WS-10, he touched on it a little bit working at SAC
- when he asked a professor, the professor just said that its thrust is greater than AL-31, and more reliable too. but not sure about the effect if installed on su-27, obviously it has a long distance from F-119/AL-41.
- also it says that the radar is domestic, not some Russian product, can't comment on the capability, but you might be able to deduce it from the magazine "modern radar" in China.
- also, TVC has been studied for years and had some breakthrough
- J-10's engine and avionics are domestic (I guess WS-10A fell a little behind schedule, huh?), engine developed with 606
- avionics developed with 613/618 adn lab 14
- also fire control system is more advanced than F-16C. For example, the non-breakdown working time (mean time between failure) spec is several times higher than that of F-16C

Anyhow, just some random musing and stuff to think about.
 

Deino

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Just to enjoy ....

[see post below this]

even if it's not completely new, I think it's close to the original picture !!

Cheers, Deino
 
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Webmaster

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Please try to utilize the ATTACHMENT feature when making a new post/thread with images. The image size support has been increased. :coffee:
 

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SteelBird

Colonel
J-10 redesign hard points?
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J-10 model with DSI? Who's the man on the left? Li Peng?
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J-10 model with twin engines? The rear part of this plane look quite similar to MiG 1.44
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(first time to post image, dunno which one will work, so please don't if there is any mistake)
 
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ahho

Junior Member
first one was i think photoshopped or cgi
second one is hard to tell if it is a planned model
third one is also hard to tell if it is a real model made but questionable if it will ever be manufactured.
 

simonov

New Member
The J-10 DSI pix, is the one concept of J-10 before go to mass production. They took the intake ala Mirage. Later they took ala F-16 intake
 

Deino

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The first one is definitly a CG, the second shows an intake of a Mirage-stylish design which was later replaced ba the current one and the third is a Zvezda 1/72-scale model of the Mikoyan MFI-prototype painted in PLAAF colours from a what-if modeling group.

Cheers, Deino
 
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