*New J-10 Thread*

[tphuang]

Luftwaffe mig-29s have 80's r-73s, new vairents have already been introduced. In itself, the r-73 is not a superior missle to the aim-9x, but when combined with a more manuverable aircraft, its advantage of high-angle attack is doubled.

can anyone give me the range of the pl-8b and the pl-9c? I seem to find too many varying stats.

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This should explain quite well. PL-8B should be around 20 to 25 KM too.

Honestly, I don't think a SRAAM need to be more than 20 KM in range. Python 4's range is still 15 KM. The SRAAM just needs to be resistant to IR counter measures and has good killing power. I personally, don't put too much emphasis on the range or max load of a SRAAM as long as it has an effective range of 15 KM and load of 40G and a speed of more than mach2.

 

[swimmerXC]

J-10 stealthy version?

 

[maglomanic]

The above article seems to be saying that stealthy version will fly in 2006(the translation i got form some posts on Key aviation forums). Tphuang posted a piece of interview with Yang Wei the J-10 cheif engineer who suggested the time to be 5 years.

Anyone comments???

 

[tphuang]

The ubove article seems to be saying that stealthy version will fly in 2006. Tphuang posted a piece of interview with Yang Wei the J-10 cheif engineer who suggested the time to be 5 years.

Anyone comments???

actually, there is a difference between the two, there are possibly 2 or 3 different types of planes coming out of CAC in the coming years:
1. J-10 modified (but still single engined) with reduced RCS more composites, better avionics, AESA radar and ability to fire the newest Chinese missiles.
2. a twin engined version of J-10 that has and might be naval. So, I guess it won't be J-10 any more, but a lot of design based on J-10. More likely using two WS-13 engines.
3. a twin engined stealthy design that takes experience from J-10 and FC-1, but doesn't really use the as the basis of the airframe, but rather a new stealth aircraft. In this case, could use two WS-10 or WS-13 engines depending on whether CAC gets the contract from pla to develop a heavy fighter or a medium sized fighter.

The one coming out early is number 1 and the one I mentionned, I'm not sure which one it is. I'm guessing it's somewhere between 2 and 3.

I'm thinking of this:
1. modified J-10 flying in this year or the next and eventually will be equipped with AESA radar, uprated 3D TVC engine (compared to the current one), IRST, laser warner receiver --> ready for service by 2008/9?
The fact that pla appears to be ready to export J-10 tells me that the modified J-10 is getting close to being ready.
2. Yang Wei is most likely talking about the medium sized 5th generation proposal. I think CAC probably won the contract for this one due to its experience with medium/light fighter. Considering that WS-13A has a deadline of being ready by 2010 set by plaaf, I think it must be for this plane. Seriously, JF-17 is not that important for plaaf. For plaaf to impose a deadline like that, there has to be another plane much higher in plaaf's wish list. If it flys by 2011, then it will probably be ready for service by 2015/6. That's pretty much when some people expected it to come out.

I would think the first one is aiming for the Rafale/Typhoon level and the second one is aiming for the F-35 level. That's just my wild guess at this point.

 

[Roger604]

actually, there is a difference between the two, there are possibly 2 or 3 different types of planes coming out of CAC in the coming years:
1. J-10 modified (but still single engined) with reduced RCS more composites, better avionics, AESA radar and ability to fire the newest Chinese missiles.
2. a twin engined version of J-10 that has and might be naval. So, I guess it won't be J-10 any more, but a lot of design based on J-10. More likely using two WS-13 engines.
3. a twin engined stealthy design that takes experience from J-10 and FC-1, but doesn't really use the as the basis of the airframe, but rather a new stealth aircraft. In this case, could use two WS-10 or WS-13 engines depending on whether CAC gets the contract from pla to develop a heavy fighter or a medium sized fighter.

The one coming out early is number 1 and the one I mentionned, I'm not sure which one it is. I'm guessing it's somewhere between 2 and 3.

I'm thinking of this:
1. modified J-10 flying in this year or the next and eventually will be equipped with AESA radar, uprated 3D TVC engine (compared to the current one), IRST, laser warner receiver --> ready for service by 2008/9?
The fact that pla appears to be ready to export J-10 tells me that the modified J-10 is getting close to being ready.
2. Yang Wei is most likely talking about the medium sized 5th generation proposal. I think CAC probably won the contract for this one due to its experience with medium/light fighter. Considering that WS-13A has a deadline of being ready by 2010 set by plaaf, I think it must be for this plane. Seriously, JF-17 is not that important for plaaf. For plaaf to impose a deadline like that, there has to be another plane much higher in plaaf's wish list. If it flys by 2011, then it will probably be ready for service by 2015/6. That's pretty much when some people expected it to come out.

I would think the first one is aiming for the Rafale/Typhoon level and the second one is aiming for the F-35 level. That's just my wild guess at this point.

I have some questions: what is the tactical difference between a single-engined and double-engineed fighter? Manoeuverability? Payload? Range? Anything else?

What is the difference between a heavy fighter and a medium fighter? Is F-22 a heavy fighter?

 

[skyhawk2005]

actually, there is a difference between the two, there are possibly 2 or 3 different types of planes coming out of CAC in the coming years:
1. J-10 modified (but still single engined) with reduced RCS more composites, better avionics, AESA radar and ability to fire the newest Chinese missiles.
2. a twin engined version of J-10 that has and might be naval. So, I guess it won't be J-10 any more, but a lot of design based on J-10. More likely using two WS-13 engines.
3. a twin engined stealthy design that takes experience from J-10 and FC-1, but doesn't really use the as the basis of the airframe, but rather a new stealth aircraft. In this case, could use two WS-10 or WS-13 engines depending on whether CAC gets the contract from pla to develop a heavy fighter or a medium sized fighter.

The one coming out early is number 1 and the one I mentionned, I'm not sure which one it is. I'm guessing it's somewhere between 2 and 3.

I'm thinking of this:
1. modified J-10 flying in this year or the next and eventually will be equipped with AESA radar, uprated 3D TVC engine (compared to the current one), IRST, laser warner receiver --> ready for service by 2008/9?
The fact that pla appears to be ready to export J-10 tells me that the modified J-10 is getting close to being ready.
2. Yang Wei is most likely talking about the medium sized 5th generation proposal. I think CAC probably won the contract for this one due to its experience with medium/light fighter. Considering that WS-13A has a deadline of being ready by 2010 set by plaaf, I think it must be for this plane. Seriously, JF-17 is not that important for plaaf. For plaaf to impose a deadline like that, there has to be another plane much higher in plaaf's wish list. If it flys by 2011, then it will probably be ready for service by 2015/6. That's pretty much when some people expected it to come out.

I would think the first one is aiming for the Rafale/Typhoon level and the second one is aiming for the F-35 level. That's just my wild guess at this point.

Yes these are wild guesses on your part.

I really really doubt your guesses are correct.

China's cutting edge is the J10, not F22. You make it sound like it's easy to build #2 or #3. China's not there yet.

Most likely, China's stealthy version of J10 will be #1, and that will take 5 years.

 

[Totoro]

I have some questions: what is the tactical difference between a single-engined and double-engineed fighter? Manoeuverability? Payload? Range? Anything else?

What is the difference between a heavy fighter and a medium fighter? Is F-22 a heavy fighter?

In my opinion, diffrence is internal space. And i'm not talking about fuel, cause single engine planes can still very well match the fuel fraction in their total weight of twin engined planes. But there are certain things that size does do better. larger radar, more avionics, easier to implement a two seater cockpit, bomb bays, etc. Sure, all those things can be used on a single engine - but that would require making the whole plane larger and heavier. with still one engine. So its performance would suffer. So eventually, after a certain point, it just makes it more effective to put a second engine there. Some add that two engined planes are safer to fly - which they probably are, by a small margin, but if that alone was the only advantage - no one would fly twin engined planes.

 

[Diving Falcon]

Considering that WS-13A has a deadline of being ready by 2010 set by plaaf, I think it must be for this plane. Seriously, JF-17 is not that important for plaaf. For plaaf to impose a deadline like that, there has to be another plane much higher in plaaf's wish list. If it flys by 2011, then it will probably be ready for service by 2015/6. That's pretty much when some people expected it to come out.

I would think the first one is aiming for the Rafale/Typhoon level and the second one is aiming for the F-35 level. That's just my wild guess at this point.

JF-17's importance is in the commerical markets and poorer countries around the world; the only reason why PLAAF would buy it is to fill up rear-line squadrons and lower the unit price of the aircraft. Given the fact that the PLAAF's future rivals will be the U.S and Western European countries, it is vital that the PLAAF induct aircraft which are on-par if not superior to their rivals'.

 

[tphuang]

It's believe that China does not want any single engined fighters in the near future, due to the reliability of its own engines (or the Russian engines). F-22 would be a heavy fighter, typhoon would be a medium sized one I guess. Gripen would be a light fighter. All I can say is that do not underestimate the capability of CAC at this point. They went from design board to certification in 5 years for J-10B. The dramatic changes on JF-17 was done in 9 months.

 

[SABRE]

JF-17's importance is in the commerical markets and poorer countries around the world; the only reason why PLAAF would buy it is to fill up rear-line squadrons and lower the unit price of the aircraft. Given the fact that the PLAAF's future rivals will be the U.S and Western European countries, it is vital that the PLAAF induct aircraft which are on-par if not superior to their rivals'.

Incase u havent noticed. JF-17 has not been marketed to poorer countries. Considering the PT-4, even BD said they would want the downgraded version (probably based on PT-2 or PT-3). PAC is marketing it in ME countries, including Saudi Arabia to replace their F-5 series. They are not poor.

Poor customers of Chinese military hardware have shown more interest in buying of PAF & PLAAF retiring 2nd hand F-7s. Last month Yemmen President convyed his interest in 2nd hand F-7Ps from Pakistan.

I am guessing PT-4 versions are not that cheap at all. & Considering that, I think J-10 with latest Chinese avionics should cost more than $20million. Should be $25 to $30 million. But again I am making asumptions here.