This will also create impetus for US/Western European provision of or collaboration with India on fighter aircraft. All this of course will put much more pressure on Russia to sweeten their deals with India regarding the same.
J-10 Thread III (Closed to posting)
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This will also create impetus for US/Western European provision of or collaboration with India on fighter aircraft. All this of course will put much more pressure on Russia to sweeten their deals with India regarding the same.
Zool
Junior Member
Well that turned India-centric pretty quick! Mods in 3,2,1...
I can't help myself from adding this though: Bar Brother, it's a little short-sighted - silly actually - to suggest that additional aircraft or capability supplied to the PAF (J-10 in this case), is somehow an advantage to India.
A sale of J-10A/B to Pakistan means a greater number of aircraft India must balance against on it's Western front. J-10B in particular would bring added capability and complexity to the force arrayed against India in the West and at a minimum require India to adjust squadron numbers accordingly. Likely India would have to bring in additional assets like MKI in order to stay competitive. Those are assets that would otherwise have been deployed against China, and so would further stretch India's already shaky squadron availability numbers. Not favorable for India at all.
Financially China could offset/moderate the cost of export to Pakistan for J-10 or J-31 if the situation required, but I suspect the relationship with India would need to deteriorate further before that became an option
I can't help myself from adding this though: Bar Brother, it's a little short-sighted - silly actually - to suggest that additional aircraft or capability supplied to the PAF (J-10 in this case), is somehow an advantage to India.
A sale of J-10A/B to Pakistan means a greater number of aircraft India must balance against on it's Western front. J-10B in particular would bring added capability and complexity to the force arrayed against India in the West and at a minimum require India to adjust squadron numbers accordingly. Likely India would have to bring in additional assets like MKI in order to stay competitive. Those are assets that would otherwise have been deployed against China, and so would further stretch India's already shaky squadron availability numbers. Not favorable for India at all.
Financially China could offset/moderate the cost of export to Pakistan for J-10 or J-31 if the situation required, but I suspect the relationship with India would need to deteriorate further before that became an option
A Bar Brother
Junior Member
It's a huge advantage to India. Because it means lesser 5th gen aircraft for PAF. The J-31 provides capabilities that the J-10 won't.
More J-10s or F-16s won't change the current plans for the MKI or future aircraft. A total of 180-200 MKIs will be close to the Pakistani border out of the 270 for immediate reaction. And IAF plans to order another batch. IAF is building up a capability-specific force, not adversary-specific.
The Chinese won't do that. They will provide loans, but it won't be a freebie. They haven't done it for the JF-17 either. The relations between India and China will improve quite a bit over the next 5 years because of the new govt. That's an added advantage.
If PAF does get a version of J-10 similar to J-10B/C with AESA radar and all the integrated electronics, then that actually would be a huge threat to IAF's MKI fleet. When J-10A faced off against Su-27/30s of PLAAF, it had overwhelming advantage against those flankers with older generation of avionics in both WVR and BVR. That advantage was only nullified once the domestic J-11s got the newer generation of avionics and missiles. J-10B/C with its new integrated electronics system and AESA radar will against have an advantage against J-11Bs (although smaller advantage than J-10A vs Su-27/30). So even if you believe that the newer MKIs are more capable than J-11B in air combat, J-10B/C will still constitute a huge threat to MKI if they are used correctly. And going forward, PAF is likely to only be purchasing Chinese fighter jets. So, I think it's reasonable for PAF to go with J-10 now or wait for FC-31 if they need save up funding.
Dizasta1
Senior Member
My friend, it could be that you may have misunderstood my post. When I mentioned "capability gap", I was referring to FC-31 would represent a capability gap for those countries looking to maintain the capabilities, updated and hence would have to wait for the stealth aircraft to become available for procurement. In other words, I was hinting at the fact that J-10B is the sort of aircraft that Pakistan Air Force needs, now and not later.
But as I mentioned before, the JF-17 Thunders represent a higher priority for Pakistan Air Force. As this combat aircraft, once it starts logging orders, would be most beneficial for further development, capability and advancements.
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
If PAF gets J10B/C it would rival French built Rafale and that deal is taking time so PAF can afford to wait for J10B/C for another few years
A Bar Brother
Junior Member
This is exactly it, the part in bold. First the J-10 needs an export certificate from the govt. If the J-10A is yet to get an export certificate, how long would it take for the J-10B/C? Let's be honest about one thing, PLAAF won't agree for the J-10B/C to be exported until their needs are met.
It is certain that PAF will buy new aircraft and it is certain that PAF will go for Chinese jets. However the actual jet is what matters. No matter what the PAF chooses, the aircraft will start coming in around the same time the Super MKI and Rafale are introduced. As far as PAF is concerned, it is one or the other. If they choose the J-10, they will have to wait for a very long time to order the J-31. If PAF decides their immediate requirement will be the J-10 over the J-31, that's a victory for the Indian establishment without ever having done anything.
kwaigonegin
Colonel
Personally I think the PAF will skip the J10B/C and concentrate on the JF17 block IIs and IIs for the forseeable future.
Assuming the J-31 comes online in the next 6-10 yrs and is 'exportable' they may just go straight to that once they are almost finish up on the Blk IIIs JF17s.
Besides for all we know the JF17 may have a very long life ahead of her especially if she becomes successful in the export market. At this point we just do not know that. There could be a Blk IV, Blk V, Blk VI who knows ... and have a production run well into the 2030s even!!! nobody knows at this point in time!
The only thing we know for sure is PAF is commited to the JF 17 Blk II and Blk III and we don't even know all the specs for Blk III yet either but the lil I know it appears that the Blk III is going to be a pretty darn capable fighter with the latest avionics package and other fancy stuff etc.
Assuming the J-31 comes online in the next 6-10 yrs and is 'exportable' they may just go straight to that once they are almost finish up on the Blk IIIs JF17s.
Besides for all we know the JF17 may have a very long life ahead of her especially if she becomes successful in the export market. At this point we just do not know that. There could be a Blk IV, Blk V, Blk VI who knows ... and have a production run well into the 2030s even!!! nobody knows at this point in time!
The only thing we know for sure is PAF is commited to the JF 17 Blk II and Blk III and we don't even know all the specs for Blk III yet either but the lil I know it appears that the Blk III is going to be a pretty darn capable fighter with the latest avionics package and other fancy stuff etc.
thunderchief
Senior Member
It is not that simple . Pakistani purchase of J-10 could be repaid not in money, but instead in greater Chinese influence and investments in Pakistan . That in turn could lead to closer defense cooperation, faster induction of J-31 in PAF, maybe even in formal Sino-Pakistani military alliance .
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