we can safely predict Bladerunner is going to flop in China.
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we can safely predict Bladerunner is going to flop in China.
Lethe
Captain
There is an interesting article on the racial dynamics of Blade Runner 2049 and the original film :
There are a couple points that I would add to the discussion:
1) Blade Runner 2049 is a film that contains far fewer people than the original, period. Whereas the original film was filled with the bustle of a future metropolis, 2049 is only sparsely populated, and this is clearly an artistic choice intended to highlight the isolation that each of the film's characters feels. I think one can question whether that choice was correct or even necessary, and it clearly doesn't negate the point that the film's characters are overwhelmingly white, but the truth is that if Blade Runner was indeed the more multicultural of the two films, it was so by means that were precluded in 2049 by its dedication to the theme of human isolation.
2) Blade Runner (both films) isn't just depicting a future, but a dystopian future. The vision of a future polyglot America where English no longer predominates was not just a neutral projection, but rather the on-screen manifestation of particular fears of white America, and Europeans more broadly. The cultural diversity of Blade Runner was part of its frightening dystopia.
Relatedly, Benedict Wong appears in the short film Blade Runner: 2036:
There are a couple points that I would add to the discussion:
1) Blade Runner 2049 is a film that contains far fewer people than the original, period. Whereas the original film was filled with the bustle of a future metropolis, 2049 is only sparsely populated, and this is clearly an artistic choice intended to highlight the isolation that each of the film's characters feels. I think one can question whether that choice was correct or even necessary, and it clearly doesn't negate the point that the film's characters are overwhelmingly white, but the truth is that if Blade Runner was indeed the more multicultural of the two films, it was so by means that were precluded in 2049 by its dedication to the theme of human isolation.
2) Blade Runner (both films) isn't just depicting a future, but a dystopian future. The vision of a future polyglot America where English no longer predominates was not just a neutral projection, but rather the on-screen manifestation of particular fears of white America, and Europeans more broadly. The cultural diversity of Blade Runner was part of its frightening dystopia.
Relatedly, Benedict Wong appears in the short film Blade Runner: 2036:
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
Here's Blade Runner 2049's Chinese representation...
Indians have it wrong. If they want to be portrayed in Hollywood movies, then they should start watching Hollywood movies. That's the only reason why Hollywood even dares to show something Chinese is because they're looking for Chinese audiences to watch it. Anything else you're watching a Freudian utopian view of the Western vision of the future.
One way China can break into international science fiction audiences is do something that hasn't been done before. It's a Western thing that the future is always dystopian. How about a simple maybe family story set in the future where every shot is cinematically artistic. Every location is a vision of what the future will be like. Don't have to worry about political messages.
Indians have it wrong. If they want to be portrayed in Hollywood movies, then they should start watching Hollywood movies. That's the only reason why Hollywood even dares to show something Chinese is because they're looking for Chinese audiences to watch it. Anything else you're watching a Freudian utopian view of the Western vision of the future.
One way China can break into international science fiction audiences is do something that hasn't been done before. It's a Western thing that the future is always dystopian. How about a simple maybe family story set in the future where every shot is cinematically artistic. Every location is a vision of what the future will be like. Don't have to worry about political messages.
Lethe
Captain
That shot is my new phone wallpaper.
It's more complicated than that. Was the Chinese/Japanese symbolism in the original Blade Runner about chasing an Asian audience? In 1982? Were the Soviet/Russian elements in 2010: A Space Odyssey about attracting a Communist audience?
Science fiction commonly portrays a vision of the future, and that vision is necessarily derived from the present. Blade Runner especially is noted for its "world-building", and in that context it is perfectly reasonable to examine the world that the film has built. Both Blade Runner films are mostly set in Los Angeles, one of the most diverse locales in the United States. If the film has a large number of characters, across different subsets of society, and yet the racial makeup of the cast is significantly less diverse in this hypothetical 2049 than it is in reality of 2017 (in contrast to current demographic projections), then it is reasonable to ask why. The film's extensive use of South and East Asian imagery adds another layer to the mystery. Is there an in-universe explanation, e.g. did all the South Asians move off-world? If so, why? Or are we simply looking at a case of lazy casting?
I think it is true, as the article I linked suggests, that a more racially diverse cast in 2049 would've been more consistent with the universe portrayed in the first film (and raised fewer questions about possible developments in the timeline) and in that light I think it would've been entirely reasonable for Joshi (the police lieutenant, K's boss) to have been of Indian descent, and for Luv, Wallace, or Joi to have been of East Asian descent.
Problem is there is not one Chinese director that can do science fiction!
After having seen the film, I can attest that the Qipao footage is only around a minute long.
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
That shot is my new phone wallpaper.
It's more complicated than that. Was the Chinese/Japanese symbolism in the original Blade Runner about chasing an Asian audience? In 1982? Were the Soviet/Russian elements in 2010: A Space Odyssey about attracting a Communist audience?
Science fiction commonly portrays a vision of the future, and that vision is necessarily derived from the present. Blade Runner especially is noted for its "world-building", and in that context it is perfectly reasonable to examine the world that the film has built. Both Blade Runner films are mostly set in Los Angeles, one of the most diverse locales in the United States. If the film has a large number of characters, across different subsets of society, and yet the racial makeup of the cast is significantly less diverse in this hypothetical 2049 than it is in reality of 2017 (in contrast to current demographic projections), then it is reasonable to ask why. The film's extensive use of South and East Asian imagery adds another layer to the mystery. Is there an in-universe explanation, e.g. did all the South Asians move off-world? If so, why? Or are we simply looking at a case of lazy casting?
I think it is true, as the article I linked suggests, that a more racially diverse cast in 2049 would've been more consistent with the universe portrayed in the first film (and raised fewer questions about possible developments in the timeline) and in that light I think it would've been entirely reasonable for Joshi (the police lieutenant, K's boss) to have been of Indian descent, and for Luv, Wallace, or Joi to have been of East Asian descent.
That was an era where it was more or less closer to true science fiction movies. But it was also like I said a Freudian view of how the West would like to see the future. Meaning it's only what they know "now" and a lot of what they want to see. The original Blade Runner had Asian motifs but no real characters except extras. That was background and that's where they belonged. The world was the West. They ran things. Back then the West believed China was backward with no hope of advancing. They probably had Chinese extras as a comment to their population. Today if Indians want it as quick as they want, the first step is watching Hollywood movies and bringing in the money. But they shouldn't worry. I'm sure they will have an easier time than "Far East" Asians because they're the new token minority that shows how the West is diverse. Yeah, true science fiction is a reflection of what's going on presently. I see Indian descent actors all over TV. You see them in movies. What they're really asking for is prominent roles equal to A-List actors. Far East Asians haven't even gotten that. That's why Indians will probably have a easier time because like today Indians are the go-to non-Western geopolitical preference for the West to show off to the world how open they are.
I think it's Netflix that will be adapting the science fiction book Ringworld. The protagonist's name is Louis Wu. I think he's half Asian/half white. We'll see what they do when they cast that character.
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AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
True. Chinese filmmakers have a long way to go. That's why the idea I put out there was the most non political science fiction that would probably pass China's censors and reach an international audience because it would center on the artistic beauty of the future which the Chinese end could probably depict well.
Lethe
Captain
I agree that "what [western science fiction creators] want to see" is one way that visions of the future are created, but not the only way. There is also what they fear to see (and I would argue that the cultural diversity of Blade Runner falls into this category) and more broadly what they expect to see based upon a particular interpretation of the present and the trends that are visible. The latter, I think, is the major reason why South Asians, Africans, etc. have not been a regular feature in science fiction to date, and one of the reasons why there is increasing attention to China in science fiction (in addition to the commercial motive).
In Joss Whedon's science fiction series Firefly he had the characters (attempt) to use various Chinese phrases,, because part of the universe's backstory was that America and China had been the last nations left on a decaying Earth and had populated the stars. This series was created around 2000. Much before then it would probably not have occurred to an American or European creator of science fiction that Chinese culture could have a significant influence on the future -- and really Joss was probably ahead of his time relative to most westerners. Such omission would not be a deliberate choice in terms of "what we want to see" but rather it would simply never have occurred to them, just as it never occurs to anyone to envision a future wherein Bolivia has conquered the globe. The rise and fall of Russian/Soviet influence in science fiction literature also follows a similar pattern corresponding to real world developments at the time. Jerry Pournelle's USA-USSR 'CoDominium' seems a quaint notion today, but not back in 1973.
I think it reflected the anxiety about the increasingly multicultural nature of Los Angeles at the time (as a harbinger of things to come for America more broadly) and about the anxiety American's felt in the 1980s about Japan's dynamism.
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
I read an article interviewing Joss Whedon on your point about Firefly. It was Japan and the US not China and the US at first. Whedon's wife was teaching her husband about current events and she convince him to change it to China. So Whedon was actually thinking old school.
I agree it's also a reflection on the anxieties, i.e. Star Trek TOS Klingons were communist Chinese, but still the West and their values was in the driver's seat.