Mothballed ARA Trinidad Sinks in Harbour

Miragedriver said:

Just to clarify. The submarines are used occasionally in order for the crews to stay proficient. The MEKOs are used on a regular basis. They truly are the workhorses of the Navy. The are usually on deployment, either: patrolling the coast line in fishery protection, there is always at least two either one in the Persian Gulf, or the Mediterranean, one on good will missions/UN mission. They are the best kept and most reliable.

One of the better investments the Navy made in the early 80’s. but as mentioned before. They are well kept but have not been upgraded, and there is no money for new purchases, or upgrades. Fortunately they are meticulously maintained.

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Somehow, I doubt that 19 hours a year of sea time submerged for the submarine fleet is sufficient for any sort of proficiency... the crews are supposed to get 190 days a year.

Pointblank said:

Somehow, I doubt that 19 hours a year of sea time submerged for the submarine fleet is sufficient for any sort of proficiency... the crews are supposed to get 190 days a year.

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The actual operational time for the submarine fleet (both TR-1700) is three deployments per submarine of approximately 11 to 14 days at at sea. I know that this is correct, I have relatives that work in the Military. Granted that 33 to 42 day at sea is not sufficient, but its not the improperly reported 19 hours.

The 19 hours you are probably quoting are from British blogs such as . This information was taken from a Mercosur Press article that was later retracted in early December 2012. The reason that there was little of no sea time for the submarine fleet in 2011 (2012 Article stated that the previous year, 2011) was because both submarines were being overhaul and unable to go to sea. It's improper how writers can twist words to present something in a different light.

Pointblank said:

Somehow, I doubt that 19 hours a year of sea time submerged for the submarine fleet is sufficient for any sort of proficiency... the crews are supposed to get 190 days a year.

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The other vessels in the navy; both fleet oilers, support vessels, transport ship (with the exception of the Bahia San Blas), patrol vessels, transport ship, almost all the tug boats, the oceanographic and hydrographic ships, the burned out ice breaker, the one remaining 209 submarine and one of the Drummond class corvettes are all in port due to lack of spare parts and money to fix and operate them. As I mentioned before the progressives running the government have emasculated the military and then complain that they (the military) are unable to defend the nation.

Pointblank I owe you an apology. It seams as it the state of the Argentine military is worse than the public was lead to believe. I confronted relative I have in the military with this. After the continual denials they confided that yes the military is in a state of complete and utter shambles. The progressive presidenta was also heard saying that she distrusts the military in general and that all officers are potential future junta members. With this attitude in leadership there is no way that Argentina can ever dig it’s self out of this deep hole.*

Below is a translation of an article that can be seen at :

Former Defense Minister Horacio Jaunarena warned Friday that Argentina is "virtually in a state of helplessness" following the "abandonment" in the military, which blamed the situation of the former head of the area Nilda Garre, and predicted a "terminal situation, it will be very complex and difficult to reverse."

Jaunarena then made the hard analysis of the events mainly in the Navy, as the sinking of the Santísima Trinidad, a missile destroyer and the situation with the corvette Espora, which had to stay for more than two months in South Africa after suffering mechanical problems in their engines.

"There is a state of abandonment in which is the whole defense system of Argentina and in particular the Navy," remarked the former military supreme commander during the governments of Raúl Alfonsín, Fernando de la Rua and Eduardo Duhalde.

Speaking to Radio Continental, Jaunarena blamed former Defense Minister Nilda Garre "for all that is happening" currently in the military. "Everything that has happened lately shows the years of disinvestments in the Armed Forces who have caused a collapse of the entire system," he said. However, Jaunarena said this "is not flashy, because reviewing budgetary allocations in recent years in Argentina defense system, one starts to realize that it is impossible to subsist the system and today we are seeing that." Deepened this regard: "The situation is very complex, it will be difficult for Argentina to emerge from this state of helplessness." "For example, failure to safeguard the sea wealth, since there are no assets to perform our sea surveillance, because they there are no (few) operational aircraft and vessels," said Jaunarena.

The former defense minister said about the Air Force "the planes are literally on the ground because they can not fly." "Right now, Argentina has absolutely no combat aircraft capable of fulfilling its mission," he warned. He also recalled that "in 2006 the then army chief minister told the Garre, who is a great responsibility for all that is happening, that the force was not able to fulfill the mission assigned by this law." According Jaunarena, the Army has "equipment over35 years old, many are not in working condition."

"We are in a terminal situation and reverse it will be very complex and difficult.”

Despite government attempts to hide it, 50% of the ships in the fleet would suffer the same fate as the ‘Santísima Trinidad’ if you do not get the funds to keep them afloat. There are no indications that the Casa Rosada (seat of government) will do. "Behind the apathy of the president's ideological grounds. For her the Admiralty is a potential coup nest. Give a damn about the boats will sink, "said Toribio Juárez of ELMUNDO.es, an expert on naval matters.

The Defense White Paper, a kind of catalog of military equipment available, noted that the Navy has 16 ships with offensive capabilities. In practice, the 6 destroyers listed, only 2 are seaworthy. The best of the ships of that class, the 'Heroine', leaning dangerously to one side by the malfunction of its turbines.

Ground Exercises
The destroyer had approved a budget for upgrading machinery, but the money was spent on the repair of boats in worse shape. Of the three submarines that the Navy has none could dive and then return to the surface. The corvettes 'Gomez Rock' and 'Granville' can only navigate by day, as were 'blind' after damaged radar.

The middle ranks of the Navy accuse the government of Cristina Kirchner of having issued a death sentence against the fleet. And to some extent, admiralty blame himself for remaining silent. "The White Paper is a joke and that he knows every last cabin boy. The naval leadership can not admit without jeopardizing national security. We can not say that we walk in canoe. However, the minimum that is required of our superiors is to make their voices heard in the Pink House, "said a former official who asked to remain anonymous.

Returning to the Defense White Paper, an officer of the Marine Corps said the daily 'Profile' to the text of technical has become a political marketing pamphlet. "I do not understand why there are so many pictures of Mrs. Kirchner and her late husband (former President Nestor Kirchner) when both have a deep rejection of the military", expressed the marine.

Needless to say, the agony of ships in port vegetate negative impact on the preparation of crews. In the decade of the 80 sailors had to meet a minimum of 40 to 60 days at sea per year. Today is considered lucky those leaving five or 10. "The exercises on land are as useful as playing with paper boats in a puddle. In these circumstances, it is better scrapping ships and sold as scrap rather than continue with the farce "concludes Juarez.

Going back to the original topic, the primary reason why the ARA Trinidad was used for parts and left in its bad state, is because it's a UK Type 42 Destroyer, and the British refused to sell spares to Argentina. Regardless of how the government viewed its Navy, had Argentina purchased ships from another country (other than UK), this probably would not have happened. Perhaps someone else can explain the reason behind Argentina's purchase.

This is a sad reversal of fortunes. When Argentina purchased the Type 42 DDG, their military was able to afford and import some of the most advanced weapon systems of the time. AAW DDG, Type 209 SSK, Super Étendard, Exocet missiles, etc. Though old, the navy operated a carrier. These were technically superior and offered greater capabilities to what China had at the time. The PRC wanted to import the Sea Dart missiles (same system installed on the Type 42 DDG), but dropped it because the 100 million pound price was deemed too high. For the PRC, the decision to buy the cheaper Sea Crotale from France would mean that the PLAN did not have MR-SAM capability or AAW ships until the 2000's. PLAN also did not operate a carrier until 2012.

adeptitus said:

Going back to the original topic, the primary reason why the ARA Trinidad was used for parts and left in its bad state, is because it's a UK Type 42 Destroyer, and the British refused to sell spares to Argentina. Regardless of how the government viewed its Navy, had Argentina purchased ships from another country (other than UK), this probably would not have happened. Perhaps someone else can explain the reason behind Argentina's purchase.

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Just as bad was ARA Espora; she held up for 78 days in South Africa due to 3 generator's failing, and the Argentinian Navy didn't have the funds to pay MTU for the repairs and to pay a number of overdue invoices before repair work could proceed.

ARA Spiro had a grounding back in 2012 and lost her sonar; I don't think that has been replaced.

adeptitus said:

Going back to the original topic, the primary reason why the ARA Trinidad was used for parts and left in its bad state, is because it's a UK Type 42 Destroyer, and the British refused to sell spares to Argentina. Regardless of how the government viewed its Navy, had Argentina purchased ships from another country (other than UK), this probably would not have happened. Perhaps someone else can explain the reason behind Argentina's purchase.

This is a sad reversal of fortunes. When Argentina purchased the Type 42 DDG, their military was able to afford and import some of the most advanced weapon systems of the time. AAW DDG, Type 209 SSK, Super Étendard, Exocet missiles, etc. Though old, the navy operated a carrier. These were technically superior and offered greater capabilities to what China had at the time. The PRC wanted to import the Sea Dart missiles (same system installed on the Type 42 DDG), but dropped it because the 100 million pound price was deemed too high. For the PRC, the decision to buy the cheaper Sea Crotale from France would mean that the PLAN did not have MR-SAM capability or AAW ships until the 2000's. PLAN also did not operate a carrier until 2012.

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Usually, the navy would be doing their damn best to source for alternate components, or domestically fabricate what can't be imported. If the Argentine Navy have to cannibalize a ship to keep the rest of its class operational, and have long since not purchase new platforms to replace the Type 42 class DDG, then it tells you how hand to mouth things are for the Argentinians.

IIRC, the whole Falkland War was sparked by the Argentine military junta's attempt to distract anti-government sentiment due to economic woes, a mud pit that they still haven't got themselves out of since. As such, it's no wonder the UK doesn't bother to "talk" with Argentina over this issue now, because despite UK's deteriorated position after all these years, Argentina is in the worse position in economy and barely keeping its military as it is, let alone mount yet another expedition.

Argentina had the opportunity to be a great nation and a leader in South America. High literacy rate, abundance of natural resource, designed and built first jet fighter in South America, nuclear energy….. The list goes on. However, due to a myopic political class that is more interested in advancing their own future and not that of the nations, and an apathetic populous we are in this bad situation. The nation was dealt a good hand and it played it poorly.

Maybe other nations will learn from this.

Miragedriver said:

Argentina had the opportunity to be a great nation and a leader in South America. High literacy rate, abundance of natural resource, designed and built first jet fighter in South America, nuclear energy….. The list goes on. However, due to a myopic political class that is more interested in advancing their own future and not that of the nations, and an apathetic populous we are in this bad situation. The nation was dealt a good hand and it played it poorly.

Maybe other nations will learn from this.

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A sad statement and almost an eptitath...but true none the less...and so sad. Yet, there is always time, stretching forward, and with time, and new generations can come hope.

Perhaps new leaders will come to power by the voice and will of the people, who will make wise use of the great resources Argentina still has, and some day things will turn around.