Mongol, Manchu, Japanese invasions took similar historical pathways?

Discussion in 'Military History' started by Phead128, Mar 29, 2011.

  1. Phead128
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    Phead128 New Member

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    Hello, I am taking a class in Geopolitics at a university.

    Today, My professor noted that the Japanese during Second Sino-Japanese war followed the same routes and pathways of invasion from the Northeast that the Mongols in the 13th century and the Manchus in the 17th century.

    Really? The Japanese really did emulate and followed the same Mongol and Manchu invasion routes that previously conquered all of China?

    http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/wordpress/wp-content/images/Japanese-expansion-map.jpg

    mods note >>>do not hotlink your photos/pictures..use a photo hosting site.

    Is there really only one successful route that has historically worked to invade China?

    Another question to ask: Did the Japanese emulate the Mongol Horde style tactic of using rape, pillage, and murder (3 ways) to stun the Chinese populace into fear and submission? Taking a page from Mongols themselves huh?

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    This supports my conclusion that China's Mao, after understanding the historical importance of protecting and securing the Northeast China, probably considered an American presence so close to Yalu river, a threat.... going back to the Imjin war, Mongol invasions, Manchu invasion, and the Japanese invasion that first took place in the Manchurian region of China.

    MacArthur himself suggested the Nationalists forces from Chiang Kai Shek launching an American led invasion to free the Mainland from Chinese Communist rule from their base in Korean next to the Yalu.
     
    #1 Phead128, Mar 29, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 29, 2011
  2. rhino123
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    rhino123 Pencil Pusher

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    Not too sure about Mongol's war path... but as for Japan invasion, they did invade China from the north. From the old manchuria and that is where they created a manchuria country and put a puppet emperor there. From this, we can see that the path coincide. However did the Japanese actually emulate the old war path was not certain and I don't think there are any evidence pointing to that.

    The Japanese might have used that because it is the easiest as that area might be the closest to them. Also Korea at that time was already under the Japanese rule and so they could move their troops down from these areas.

    As for the the Japanese war crimes on the pillage, rape and the likes was not learned or followed from the Mongols (I think). There are quite a few ways of intimidating a general populaces and Mongols are not the only ones using this tactic.
     
  3. IronsightSniper
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    IronsightSniper Junior Member

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    If I had to invade China, I'd pick the same route, home to millions of people, tonnes of natural resources, oh and, virtually flat land, which means quick and easy access by high-mobility forces (like horses or tanks.)
     
  4. Lion
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    Lion Senior Member

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    Then you expect the Japanese to invade China thru south??

    It was basic common sense since Japan is located in upper north of China, plus they colonize Korea that time.
     
  5. Sirf_palot
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    Sirf_palot Just Hatched

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    I do believe that the reason for the war crimes was partly related to the horrifically brutal training methods used by the IJA. I forgot what library book I read it from but apparently the IJA during the Russo-Japanese War, First World War , and even during its part of the 8 Nation Coalition were very well behaved. Apparently, the sudden massive expansion of the army through conscription caused a lot of discipline problems which were compensated by a brutal training regimen and brutal treatment of privates my NCOs and etc. Of course, this doesn't excuse their actions but I don't think there intentions were to purposely terrorize the Chinese into submission as any body could see that it would not work. The proper of any outnumbered army on an "occupation" and expansion mission would have been to try to win the hearts and minds of the conquered. Much like what "we" did in Iraq and Afghanistan.
     
  6. rhino123
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    rhino123 Pencil Pusher

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    Now that i have come to think of it... Mongol, Japan and Manchu are all up North of China... as pointed out by Lion, the attack would of course come from the North... so they the war paths simply coincide and not delibrately planned to follow or emulate one another other. It is just the way it is.

    If Taiwan was to attack... I would imagine that they would come in from the South... And so... there really is no big conspiracy here... just the way geography leads to events.
     
  7. xywdx
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    xywdx New Member

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    Actually the Japanese were not outnumbered, the situation in China was very complex, they couldn't field more than half the number of the Japanese army.
     
  8. Sirf_palot
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    Sirf_palot Just Hatched

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    Sorry, by outnumbered I mean an occupation force < indigenous population.
     
  9. Ryz05
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    Ryz05 Junior Member

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    The Mongols actually invaded China from the Northwest through Xinjiang after they consolidated North and Manchuria. The Japanese started with taking Manchuria due to its natural resources, but they decided to invade China mainly from the East with Shanghai, as well as raid many areas in the South where there were airports that could threaten the Japanese island. The Manchu invaded from the Northeast, their home base. It's interesting to note that the Communist Chinese also decided to control Manchuria first after the Japanese retreat, before attacking from North to South. China historically is conquered from North or Northwest, because that's usually where the horses come from; the open plains.

    The Japanese began their Three Alls Policy after the Communist attacks, who blended in with the population. Although it antagonized many people, the Chinese couldn't drive the Japanese out, and because the Japanese were so spreadout in the Northeast, East, and South, they couldn't conquer and control the whole of China.

    The only similarities among the Mongol, Manchu, and Japanese is they all started with the North, but proceeded in different directions: the Mongols went West before turning Southeast to conquer China through Xinjiang, the Manchu attacked South directly after passing the Great Wall, while the Japanese proceeded to invade mainly from the East through Shanghai. Interesting topic.
     
  10. Spartan95
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    Spartan95 Junior Member

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    I'd say that's rather simplistic and selective.

    The Mongols came from the north, not Northeast. The Manchus did come from the Northeast, because that's where they are from.

    As for the Japanese, they colonised the Korean peninsula since that was closest to Japan. And from there, they started to push into China (Manchuria). However, that was not the only route the Japanese took. They also took Shanghai (in the Southeast), Hong Kong, Taiwan, etc. So it is not exactly so straight forward that the Japanese followed the Manchu route of invading China from the Northeast.

    There are also numerous other instances where China was invaded in other directions. The western powers came from the south and took Hong Kong and Macau as colonies during the Qing Dynasty before finally forcing their way into Beijing.

    Also, in earlier dynasties, "barbarian tribes" (such as the Xiongnu) harassed China from the west and northwest as well.

    Actually, as far as I can tell, that is due to 2 reasons:

    1. PRC's industrial base in its early years was in the Northeast. This industrial base was left behind by the Japanese after they surrendered at the end of WWII. The Japanese industrialised Manchuria (their puppet state) during their decades there, and this industrial base represented PRC's only heavy industrial base for decades after the CCP came to power. Hence, it was strategically important to protect this area.

    2. The American threat is not at the Yalu river. It is at the 38th parallel DMZ. Rather, Mao regarded the USSR as being the greatest threat to PRC during the Cold War after the Sino-Soviet split. As a result, there was heavy military presence on all of PRC's northern borders (including the northeast) with USSR for many decades. This military presence was stepped up when PRC initiated the Sino-Vietnam War of 1979 as Vietnam was an ally of USSR and PRC was preparing for a USSR retaliation on its northern borders.
     
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