Modern Main Battle Tanks ( MBT )

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
The Advantages of the Raven however never justified it.Although the weight of the vehicle hosting it can be reduced it requires an open turret and is a risk to nearby infantry. Like all recoilless weapons Backblast is lethal, this also limits it's options in urban as well. As such practically for a vehicle of the type the conventional 105 mm was deemed more practical.
As such The US Army more or less ditched it for the program it was aimed for, The FCS program. instead they chose a more conventional option. the Low Recoil Main gun.


The Main gun of the Centauro is a 120mm 45 caliber high velocity high pressure Low recoil a perfect example of the type. Although the Vehicle is 30 tons it is a proverbial paper weight compared to a NATO MBT.
At the heart of it is a set of recoil mitigation technologies a hydraulic, recoil-counter-recoil system and Muzzle break. none of these are new technologies for Tank guns what is is that the designers upped power of the dampeners. Where Raven uses counter exhausting to achieve counter recoil These guns use a mechanical means It's a Mathematical formula. recoil impulse is at its harshest when the energy of travel for the gun reaches it's end of travel, however if you build a strong enough buffer system you can stop the gun from going though it's full range of Travel because the energy of recoil will 0. on a Small scale this can be seen in the Ultimax 100 LMG in the large scale these guns.
Among the First to use this was the Ruag Compact Tank gun. This was originally designed to Rearm Panzer 68 and older 105mm tanks.
View attachment 43042
This gun is used in the Jordanian M60 Phoenix, Falcon Turret and the CV90-120T
the CV90 120-t represents a 26 ton vehicle with a full tank gun.

rapidly The US followed suit with the XM360 program based on work from the XM291 This was a reduced weight Main gun with
The French Gait 120 L52 FER

The Germans not to be left behind have the Rheinmetall 120 mm L/47 LLR (light, low recoil) gun Followed by the Israeli RG120 variant of the MG253

The potential is not however just limited to the light tank class though View attachment 43043 The same technologies can be placed in MBT turrets to. View attachment 43044
The 120mm low recoil is not perfect though the Breech mechanism is by necessity heavier. you might be able to get away with this though if you redesign the gun tube and use other materials
using materials like Titanium and modern composites the standard L44 like that on an Abrams weighs 9,933 pounds. The Xm360 E1 7,331 pounds a full ton less

Very nice post ! even a little report.

Italians get good combat vehicle but don't replace all in service more expensive in Cavalry/Recc Rgt as in Spanish Army 40 with 36 Puma for Italiy.
You have eventualy the perforation length for this 120 mm/45 cal ?
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Up-armored Leclerc operational with UAE Army

The United Arab Emirates is operating a variant of the Leclerc main battle tank (MBT) fitted with applique armor. This armor is understood to be explosive reactive armor (ERA) made by Dynamit Nobel Defence (DND) of Germany. In 2016 the company was contracted by the military of the UAE to provide reactive armor kits for more than 200 Leclerc MBTs
...

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Lecl.jpg
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Just a little Trivia, I had forgotten. April 24th 1918 was the First Tank on Tank battle in History happened at the Second Battle of Villers-Bretonneux. As with most late war battles of World war 1 it was totally worthless.
3 German A7V tanks ( Very rare only 20 built) The Germans in fact used far more captured British and French tanks.
vs
3 British Mark IV tanks of which 1 was male (armed with 6 pounder cannon ) and 2 female armed with just Machine guns.
The Females really were useless their Machine guns little more than noise makers against another tank. the Male managed to hit the Lead A7V killing some the crew. The survivors abandoned the tank,The Remaining A7V fled the Field.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
View attachment 47285
I Say Name it the Chimera after the Greek mythical a fire-breathing female monster with a lion's head, a goat's body, and a serpent's tail.! IT's a German Hull with a French Turret and I think a German Gun.
French and German armor makers test the waters with a ‘Euro-tank’

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and
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  8 hours ago

PARIS ― France’s Nexter and Germany’s Krauss-Maffei Wegmann pitched a cross between a Leopard 2 chassis and a Leclerc turret at the Eurosatory trade show in Paris on Monday.
Officially dubbed the European Main Battle Tank, or EMBT, the vehicle is meant to showcase that the German and French companies can work together on the path toward an envisioned Main Ground Combat System pursued by both nations. That weapon is slated to see the light of day in the mid-2030s.
Additionally, the developers believe the “Frankentank” meets a real-life demand, and they hope a paying customer might take the idea and run with it. For now, the tank is a demonstrator project funded by the two companies’ joint venture, KNDS.
“The interest of this program is using the current technology to provide an interesting operational tank to the market and at the same time continue to have an industry activity during the 15-20 years,” Francois Groshany, Nexter’s head of tracked and armor programs, told Defense News in an interview.
“We will see at this exhibition if there are some countries interested in it so that we will be able to launch a full development,” he said.
Groshany said the benefit of the hybrid machine lies in the Leopard 2′s “very-high capability” chassis, which can carry up to 68 tons, and merging it with the lightness of the Leclerc’s turret, which needs only a crew of two to operate.
As a result, potential customers get 10 percent of the weight, or 6 tons, to install additional kit on the tanks as they see fit, he explaied.
The weapon is “proof that KMW and Nexter have established a first significant joint KNDS product in record time,” company officials wrote in a statement. “The EMBT drives and fires ― in short, it works!”
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This is a Demonstrator but it's interesting. The Leopard hull and Leclerc Turret are lightest elements of there respective Tanks. Both Tanks have been well proven on the battle field and there might be potential buyers of this Tank. It is not however intended to be the Next great Europanzer though just a step along the way.
Like the Leclerc this tank should have a crew of 3 Driver, Commander and Gunner. The Autoloader tanking care of the rest.

I have Kind had a thought along similar lines for a M1A3 Take the Hull of the Abrams upgrade it with the active suspension of the K2 and mount the K2 Turret on top with a Trophy APS only down side is the small size of the K2 autoloader 18 rounds of ammo compared to both tanks base line 40 Abrams gets that by using the Bustle magazine. K2 by having most of the ammo in the hull. Hence why it would never work.
For the EMBT the Leopard has hull storage for 27 rounds in the hull and Leclerc as many as 23 in the Auto loader combining these two for a Ridiculous 50 rounds of 120mm unitary ammo.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
When does industry expect France and Germany to set its future tank requirements?
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  19 hours ago
PARIS ― KNDS expects France and Germany to deliver by early next year key military requirements for a future heavy tank, said the two chairmen of the Franco-German joint venture for land weapons.

“Within this year or latest next year,” said Frank Haun, CEO of Krauss-Maffei Wegmann and joint chairman of KNDS.

Haun and Stephen Mayer, CEO of Nexter and joint chairman of KNDS, spoke June 13 to Defense News at the Eurosatory trade show on land weapons.

Those requirements for a next-generation tank are seen as critical to the future of KNDS, formed in 2015. KMW is a private company owned by the Wegmann family, while
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is state-owned.

The French and German defense ministers have given political pledges to back a new tank, dubbed Main Ground Combat System, and new-generation artillery, or Common Indirect Fire System.

Industry leaders are waiting for the French and German army chiefs of staff to set out requirements that will shape the programs, which may lead to a consolidation of European land weapons for industry and lead to the military sharing the same tank and artillery.

That Main Ground Combat System will be the successor to the Leclerc and Leopard 2 tanks, the main battle tanks for the French and German armies, respectively. An entry into service is expected in 2035.

There are signs of an eagerness for the requirements, which could open a new chapter.

“They need something now,” Haun said.

Much hangs on whether the two army chiefs of staff will agree on a common requirement that would allow French and German industry to design, develop and build the same tank.

“Will they agree?” Haun said. “We don’t know, but we think so.”

Added Mayer: “We think so.”

The French and German army chiefs of staff are due to meet in the next few weeks to discuss operational requirements, a French military source said.

That critical list of requirements launches “an iterative process,” with companies studying the operational needs and responding, Mayer said.

“It is more than a political statement but not a final definition,” Hain said.

At the Berlin Air Show in April, it was reported the French and German defense ministers said a German company would lead the new tank program. German industrial leadership was seen as opening the door to
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KNDS, however, is confident its capabilities as a “systems house” will lead to winning the prized prime contractorship, and Nexter sees no problem of a German leadership on the tank.

“KNDS has all the competences needed to be the system house for MGCS,” Mayer said. “Both Nexter and KMW have that. We are French-German, we are able together to manage the program and to make a joint team, and also to respect the decision of the two countries to have a German leadership.”

There were “no problems inside the group,” he added.

Said Haun: “We are as French as we are German.”

A German company leading the tank program follows a leading German role through Airbus for a project for a European medium-altitude, long-endurance UAV. A French company will take the top job in the third bilateral project, dubbed Future Combat Air System.

Research and development for the tank will likely require some €1 billion (US $1.2 billion) over 10 years, with the government partially funding the work, Haun said. There will be new concepts, new technology, protection, communications, more artificial intelligence and “robotization.”

There will be a new gun, with caliber size weighed against mobility and protection. A maximum weight is seen as 70 tons. The tank will likely be linked to robots through “automatization.” There will also be a need to cut the cost of spares and logistical support.

Work on the new artillery project is similar to that on the tank, with active discussion on theCommon Indirect Fire System , which is on a similar timescale, around 2035.

Mayer noted that French Armed Forces Minister Florence Parly referred to the planned artillery in her June 11 speech at Eurosatory. In her remarks, she said work by KNDS on the tank and gun projects can be interpreted as signs of cooperation with Germany.

“This industrial partnership speaks much of the ambition we have with Germany, with which we share programs which will be of structural importance for our armies and the future of our defense.”

Sebastian Sprenger contributed to this report.
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gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
I think the MGCS needs a higher powered gun because the T-14 has much more armor protection. Or at the very least the MGCS needs to be designed to be able to accept such a gun with little modification in the future. It should also have at least NERA and APS systems as a default. At least for vanguard units.

The Leopard 2 chassis has a much less advanced suspension than the Leclerc, it does make the tank a lot cheaper though. So I can understand why they chose that configuration. But it would be lame for a new European tank to have even worse suspension than the T-14.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
The current gun of the T14 is a long barrel 125mm smooth bore. The Russians claim they will upgrade to a 152mm gun but talk is cheap T14 is expensive and the 152mm gun length and recoil causes issues with the autoloader.
Rhinmetall has been working on a 140mm smooth bore off and on much like the Russians have there 152mm.
Problems. It's big. 140mm.png The South Koreans have a love of being ahead of the curve in tank boom the K2 Black panther is basically ready to up gun to a 140mm just needs to change barrels.
Not it's autoloader holds 17 rounds compared to the similar Leclerc autoloader of 22.
 
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