Modern CIWS & Anti-Missile Systems (Deployed and in development)

Jeff Head

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White Sands Missile Range is testing a new weapon system known as the Laser Centurion Demonstrator.

The system, developed by Raytheon, combines proven radar and threat-detection technology with the latest in laser weapons. This demonstration model is intended to prove the capabilities and effectiveness of the new laser weapon as part of the Laser Area Defense Systems program, officials said.

The new laser system is designed to replace the 20mm cannon on the Navy's Phalanx system and the Army's Centurion system, according to Raytheon's Web site.

The integration of an advanced directed energy weapon into an existing conventional weapon system helps keep the system's costs down as well as allowing an easier transition from one system to another, officials said.

The Phalanx is an air and missile-defense system used on nearly every ship in the fleet. Converted to be transported and fired from a trailer, it is also used by the Army under the name Centurion to provide defense from air and missile threats as well as defense against mortar and artillery attacks. As an upgrade to the Phalanx and Centurion, the laser system is a program that is jointly funded by the Navy and Army. Other services are also interested in the laser itself for possible integration into other weapon systems.

"Directed energy is getting more and more prevalent in weapon systems," said Col. Bruce Lewis, White Sands Test Center commander.

Initial tests with the demonstrator have been positive. The laser has proven capable of rapidly penetrating armor plating even when not at full power, and system setup has been very easy.

"We are excited to be testing system capabilities by shooting down mortar rounds in the coming weeks," said Sal Rodriguez, senior flight test engineer with the Naval Surface Warfare Center, Port Hueneme Division, Sands Missile Range detachment. Rodriguez also thanked all the members of Team White Sands who have supported the program while it prepares to test the system.

The Laser Centurion will fill the same role as the conventional cannon-equipped version while providing a commander with more options and capabilities, officials said. The laser-based system will still be able to engage targets like mortars, rockets, and missiles, but without the drawbacks of limited ammunition. Also, since the laser does not use any kind of solid shot like the cannon, it can be used to better defend populated areas without the fear of the "20mm shower" that conventional air-defense guns cause when their bullets fall back to earth.

Since it is also able to be used against small surface targets, the laser will be able to be used in peacekeeping and anti-piracy missions without drawing the kind of attention a cannon would.

"At (short range) it's a nice deterrent, and without the big bang of a gun," said Lt. Shawn Mitchell, assistant officer in charge of the Naval Surface Warfare Center, Port Hueneme Division's WSMR detachment.

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, with their new super efficient reactors, will have more than enough electrical energy available to power up four of these systems at full 50kw throttle.

I expect we will see them tested at sea in plenty of time for installation on the new first of class, which is already building.
 
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Scratch

Captain
Re: US Testing Laser CIWS at White Sands

Interesting development. Do you know how that laser fits into the line of development of other, similar systems?
How is it related to things like: THEL, the ABL, the ATL or laser avanger?
All of those are chemical lasers, except the laser avanger, AFAIK. But then again, toxic chemicals on a warship, or even a forward army base possibly in hostile territory aren't that smart perhaps. So is it a solid state laser already? Appenrently, if you have a reliable source of energy, SSLs are more efficient. And at least on the CNV-78s, energy should really not be a problem. Those ships could then possibly carry more and even bigger lasers to take over a fleet defense role against missiles again in close to medium range.
But with improvements in low energy lasers, they can perhaps replace Phalanx / RAM on most ships in two decades.
LHA-6 and CG(X) could also be primary assets to get those weapons.

The ATL currently being tested abord a AC-130H takes up nearly the whole space available, at most because of the chemicals needed, I think. However, at around 2015, the concept could become marture, with a SSL being powered by the engines.

In the maritime domain, that means in ten to twenty years time attacking a surface fleet would require new weapons systems, or missiles being undetectable until the very last moment I guess. Lasers will have a very high rate of target destrcution I assume.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: US Testing Laser CIWS at White Sands

Interesting development. Do you know how that laser fits into the line of development of other, similar systems?
How is it related to things like: THEL, the ABL, the ATL or laser avanger?
All of those are chemical lasers, except the laser avanger, AFAIK. But then again, toxic chemicals on a warship, or even a forward army base possibly in hostile territory aren't that smart perhaps. So is it a solid state laser already? Appenrently, if you have a reliable source of energy, SSLs are more efficient. And at least on the CNV-78s, energy should really not be a problem. Those ships could then possibly carry more and even bigger lasers to take over a fleet defense role against missiles again in close to medium range.
But with improvements in low energy lasers, they can perhaps replace Phalanx / RAM on most ships in two decades.
LHA-6 and CG(X) could also be primary assets to get those weapons.

The ATL currently being tested abord a AC-130H takes up nearly the whole space available, at most because of the chemicals needed, I think. However, at around 2015, the concept could become marture, with a SSL being powered by the engines.

In the maritime domain, that means in ten to twenty years time attacking a surface fleet would require new weapons systems, or missiles being undetectable until the very last moment I guess. Lasers will have a very high rate of target destrcution I assume.
It is a solid state laser, and clearly the new CVN will have more than sufficient electrical power to run four of them (would be my guess).

As to the land based one for the Centurion Demonstrator, there have been a number of thoughts about its power. From hybrid drive train development for mobile versions, to the base grid for stationary.

...and BillyBoy, simple white paint or even reflector schemes will not work with these lasers as you imagine...though more sophisticated methodologies may...which are expensive and may impact missile performance in order to maintain.
 

Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
Re: US Testing Laser CIWS at White Sands

I had been expecting to see something of this nature for quite a while now. I am quite glad that the USN will soon be deploying these weapons, as a few ships with lasers will in the long run be more effective and less expensive than batteries expensive SAMs.

It's quite interesting that this is a solid state laser. The military had not publicly acknowledged anything about a SSL at this stage of capability. Makes you wonder what else they might have up their secret research sleeve. :confused:
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: US Testing Laser CIWS at White Sands

I had been expecting to see something of this nature for quite a while now. I am quite glad that the USN will soon be deploying these weapons, as a few ships with lasers will in the long run be more effective and less expensive than batteries expensive SAMs.

It's quite interesting that this is a solid state laser. The military had not publicly acknowledged anything about a SSL at this stage of capability. Makes you wonder what else they might have up their secret research sleeve. :confused:

Yes. The article at the link goes on to explain it.

"Unlike previous laser systems of this kind that used chemical reactions to generate the necessary power for the laser, the Laser Centurion uses a solid-state laser that can run off any appropriately powerful source of electricity.

"It's like the difference between an electric car and a gas-burning car... this is a very green system," said Dan McMaster, a program manager from Raytheon. This makes the Laser Centurion a very flexible weapon system as it will be able to run off land-based generators and power supplies just as well as it will off of a ship's reactor."


As to what else is on the burner...I have heard that they are working with charged particles (particle beam) efforts as well, but they are in earlier stages.
 

williamhou

Junior Member
Re: US Testing Laser CIWS at White Sands

[qimg]http://www.jeffhead.com/images/laserphalanx.jpg[/qimg]​


The laser has proven capable of rapidly penetrating armor plating even when not at full power, and system setup has been very easy.



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Seems we are going to see laser tanks very soon...near unlimited ammo, 100% accuracy, no projectile flying time...if the future tank have enough power to run it.

For the Navy, may be the best option to counter saturation attack...nice
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
Re: US Testing Laser CIWS at White Sands

I'm skeptical of a few things.

In order for lasers to be undetectable, it depends on the clearness of the air. If you got fog, smoke, or particles in the air, they will reflect the laser which will form a very visible beam that will trace a line right back to the very source. Which in turn will draw fire. Fog, rain, all create problems. One problem though not in space, is atmospheric refraction. Densities of air refract light in different ways, and that creates margins of error. For example, in a hot summer day, you got a mirage effect near the ground as heated air rises and create a shimmering effect. At best you have a fair weather weapon. If attacked on a foggy or rainy day, these laser tanks will have a big problem. And generally, I see the problem of lasers is that they can be defeated with a very simple device, a smoke generator.

The second is something more interesting and it has been theorized among those who speculate on future weaponry. Its actually even mention in Star Trek, and I'm not talking of force fields. In Deep Space Nine, the USS Defiant had something called Ablative armor, which isn't very difficult to implement.

What an ablative armor does is when a direct energy weapon hits on the surface, the surface absorbs the energy, vaporizes and forms a gaseous coating. The gas or smoke acts as a barrier that diffuses the beam. Eventually ablative armor will run out but that can buy more than enough time to escape or counter attack, and it can be replaced in maintenance.


Another form of armor, mentioned in the Mechwarrior games, is Reflective armor. The meaning is obvious enough, and it was meant primarily as a defense against laser weapons.

The problem of lasers and direct energy weapons is they require a line of sight. Missiles and artillery doesn't. They can take a ballistic path over obstacles and strike from the top. Ballistic trajectories also increase the range and allow you to hit targets beyond the earth curvature.
 

Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
Re: US Testing Laser CIWS at White Sands

Obviously reflection and particle interference are major issues, but (and excuse me if I am making a noob out of myself here) couldn't that be overcome by making the laser larger, the beam stronger?
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: US Testing Laser CIWS at White Sands

I'm skeptical of a few things.

In order for lasers to be undetectable, it depends on the clearness of the air. If you got fog, smoke, or particles in the air, they will reflect the laser which will form a very visible beam that will trace a line right back to the very source. Which in turn will draw fire. Fog, rain, all create problems. One problem though not in space, is atmospheric refraction. Densities of air refract light in different ways, and that creates margins of error. For example, in a hot summer day, you got a mirage effect near the ground as heated air rises and create a shimmering effect. At best you have a fair weather weapon. If attacked on a foggy or rainy day, these laser tanks will have a big problem. And generally, I see the problem of lasers is that they can be defeated with a very simple device, a smoke generator.

The second is something more interesting and it has been theorized among those who speculate on future weaponry. Its actually even mention in Star Trek, and I'm not talking of force fields. In Deep Space Nine, the USS Defiant had something called Ablative armor, which isn't very difficult to implement.

What an ablative armor does is when a direct energy weapon hits on the surface, the surface absorbs the energy, vaporizes and forms a gaseous coating. The gas or smoke acts as a barrier that diffuses the beam. Eventually ablative armor will run out but that can buy more than enough time to escape or counter attack, and it can be replaced in maintenance.


Another form of armor, mentioned in the Mechwarrior games, is Reflective armor. The meaning is obvious enough, and it was meant primarily as a defense against laser weapons.

The problem of lasers and direct energy weapons is they require a line of sight. Missiles and artillery doesn't. They can take a ballistic path over obstacles and strike from the top. Ballistic trajectories also increase the range and allow you to hit targets beyond the earth curvature.
These lasers take into consideration the air, humidity, and atmospheric conditions they are likely to operate in...the worst caes. otherwise they will be useless duing those time when ocnditions are worse and an opposing force will simply use those conditions to their benefit.

In addition to their power, there are certain other methodologies that can be applied to help them overcome the types of issues you raise. At certain levels, those conditions do begin to effect performance, but significant magins of error are built in.

The type of armor you mention is possible, but difficult to implement, particularly on missiles where weight and aerodynamic shape must me maintained for the missile to mantian its performance thresholds. I know of no nation (including the US) who has implemented such armor. The US has worked with various elctronic, particle, and electromagnetic shielding for its aircraft...but to my knoweldge with the possible exception of the B-2, the F-22, and the Aurora (still not admitted to) there is nothing implemented and I am not sure there.

As to missiles using ballistic trajectories and such...this is all true. The weapons currently under discussion are close in weapons, not meant to achieve long range, but as the last ditchdefense against leakers that have gotten through the CSG's significant other anti-missile and anti-air defences.

For longer range, you must have much, much more powerful systems. The US is develpong those and is deploying the ABL which is mounted to a 747 frame and flies at significant altitude. It has a range of several hundred miles depending on the altituide of the target.
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
Re: US Testing Laser CIWS at White Sands

I'm not sure if they had reached the point of taking account smoke and fog. All we are seeing are technological demonstration. Even if you take conditions into consideration, the only likely approach is to increase power but you can't do anything about reducing visibility. Its just sheer physics.

Ablative armor is not that hard to make. Not referring to missiles, but on tanks. It works similarly to the principle used on the tiles for the Space Shuttle. The substance is likely to be ceramic. Simply said, if the substance gets superheated, creates a lot of dirty opaque smoke when vaporized, then it is potentially ablative.

These laser systems are meant to supplement, not replace, current projectile based weapons.
 
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