Modern Carrier Battle Group..Strategies and Tactics

Discussion in 'Strategic Defense' started by Kampfwagen, Sep 30, 2006.

  1. Totoro
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    Totoro Captain
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    Re: How Do You Sink A Carrier?

    Jeff, can you tell me just how much are burke and tico classes hampered by rough seas? In severe weather conditions, isn't it probable that speed would most likely be in 20 something knot range, if not less? Also, just what is the fuel consumption for those ships when using max power for max speed? Thank you. :)
     
  2. Jeff Head
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    Re: How Do You Sink A Carrier?

    Well of course any vessel is going to be hampered by bad weather, depending on just how rough the sea state is.

    As to their fuel consumption in such conditions, I simply do not know, but clearly if they are fighting against rough seas and winds, and maintaining good speed, the consumption is going to go up. They are powered by four GE LM 2500 gas turbines, each rated at 33,600hp with a power turbine speed of 3,600rpm, driving two shafts, with controllable pitch propellers, so that should give some sense of their fuel consumption.
     
    #312 Jeff Head, Apr 23, 2007
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2007
  3. IDonT
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    Re: Use ballistic missile to destroy a carrier?

    What you just proposed is on of those easy in theory, impossible in reality concepts. The tactic of satellite recon has been tested and countered by the US in the cold war days. Secondly, the engineering problems encountered by grafting a guidance system and manuevering mechanism on MIRV so that it can hit a manuevering target is emmense.

    Ask yourself, why is a ballistic missile needed to destroy a carrier. Because no other arsenal in any country can reached further and faster than a BM. Their cruise missiles are much more vulnerable. That is why this argument exist.
     
  4. Kim Jong Il
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    Re: Use ballistic missile to destroy a carrier?

    you need to drop a nuclear bomb to destroy the entier carrier battle group.
     
  5. DarkEminence
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    DarkEminence New Member

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    Re: How Do You Sink A Carrier?

    "Pump enough holes in it 'til it don't float no more :D "

    Passive Denial? I mean, using anti-ship missiles is useful, but what about passive denial? I heard the Russians developed a "rocket mine" where a undersea (and very quiet because it probably is not moving) mine would wait until a heavy inductor surfs above it. I mean sure, there are not enough mines to cover the entire sea, but you just have to have the <i>threat</i> of mines to scare or hinder the fleet.
     
  6. mpaduan79
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    mpaduan79 New Member

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    Re: How Do You Sink A Carrier?

    i have an interesting hipothesis that i discus with some friends during imdex in singapore last month using battle cruiser @ battleships... to infintratethe carrier battle group defense in near future but i will will not bring it up coz still
    some more thing to complete it....interesting eh...battleship vs carrier group....yamato vs enterprise...or tank vs infantri....:coffee:
     
  7. Jeff Head
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    Re: How Do You Sink A Carrier?

    Sounds like the basic Soviet doctrine. Battlecruisers, heavy destroyers, SSGNs, and regiments of attack aircraft used to overwhelm the carriers defense.

    Could work I suppose, although with one tico and two Burkes, and then with the advent of RAM missile defenses close in on the carrier itself, the prospect has gotten more difficult...and in any case, would likely be horribly expensive for the attacking entity.

    I still think that the most deadly threat to any carrier group...or any other group for that matter, is the sub surface threat.
     
  8. Pointblank
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    Pointblank Senior Member

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    Re: How Do You Sink A Carrier?

    The last time battleships went against aircraft carriers, the battleships got their rear ends kicked hard. Such an attack is a one way trip: down to the bottom of the ocean. Aircraft carriers with their aircraft complement are able to find and prosecute surface targets at a considerable range in comparison to ship launched missiles.
     
  9. bigstick61
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    Re: How Do You Sink A Carrier?

    Such is not the case. Whenever battleships have ambushed carriers, it has generally ended badly for the carriers. The exception is the Battle off Samar, but that was not so much because of the carriers. Simply put, Admiral Kurita lost his nerve and ordered withdrawal when he was on the cusp of victory. Some of his cruisers were blasting the carriers at less than 10,000 yard's range and closing. Had he used better tactics, and not lost his nerve, all three carrier task forces would have been sent to the bottom. Of course, that was not the only battleship versus carrier engagement, and the rest ended with sunk carriers and victorious battleships or battlecruisers.

    The trick, especially these days, is a very good strategy. I think that if you can seperate a large part of your carrier forces and give out flase intel that they are the sole or main force and use them to engage the enemy, they can draw away aircraft which would otherwise detect the surface force (which necessarily would have carrier escort in most cases). You would have to find a way to avoid detection for as long as possible. Depending on the circumstances, you could ambush and then pose as a seperate enemy force, hug the coastline in the area of operations, or simply try to go straight for the carriers (worked for Kurita; despite US forces having radar and air patrols, he was not detected until he had opened fire with the Yamato's 18.1" guns). If you can get to close range of the carriers with a powerful surface force, especially one with battleships, say reactivated Iowas, you could wreak havoc amongst the carriers if you use sound tactics. The key is the element of surprise. Kurita had surprise, but poor tactics and his inability to handle the stress of the engagement prevented him from accomplishing his mission, despite the fact that Ozawa's decoy carrier force had worked to perfection.
     
  10. Pointblank
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    Re: How Do You Sink A Carrier?


    The problem is that today, sensor technology has improved to a point that in essence, any ship afloat on the surface can be theoretically tracked. A well organized CAP, plus good communication coupled to modern technology will detect a surface group from a very long range. Back in World War II, they did not have AEW. They did not have radar sets built into every airplane. They did not have modern data links. They did not have satellite reconnaissance.

    What did Kurita blunder into? A escort carrier task force. An airplane had already spotted his ships and had alerted the task force. With modern technology, due to increased sensor range and coverage (no longer limited and restricted to visual range) and increased range of aircraft, a carrier can detect targets at a much further range than any anti-ship missile available today. For example, the E-2 Hawkeye, the primary eyes of the American and French CVBG's is capable to of tracking more than 2000 targets (while at the same time, detecting 20,000 simultaneously) and controlling the interception of 40 hostile targets at ranges over 550km. One radar sweep by an E-2 Hawkeye covers 6 million cubic miles. So imagine around the carrier, a detection bubble of over 550km around a carrier. Nothing enters that bubble without being detected that is either in the air or on the surface. If a large surface force entered my radar scope, and was radiating a electronic signal (which a ship will with its radar and ESM suite will), I would have something go over and fly over the group and determine if it is hostile. Once I have the information in hand that the target is hostile, I can then turn tail away, and prepare a strike with my aircraft against the group.
     
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