Military situation in the sino-indian border
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Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
China command the high ground and has excellent road and military facility all along the border . So nothing to fear See it yourself in this video made by Indian person. "He who command the high ground has advantage"
In 62 Tawang was overrun by the Chinese and return to the Indian as gesture of peaceful intention
There is highway from Lhasa to Nyingchi right at the border with Arunachal Pradesh and rail road is being built and should be finish this year
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The dispute of Arunachal Pradesh (South Tibet in China) is pretty interesting, this area is mostly Tibetan so ethically and historically its actually part of Tibet.
The most important place in Arunachal Pradesh is Tawang monastery, many consider it to be only the 2nd holiest site after Lhasa. Funny that during the 1962 China India war, China actually took over Tawang and most of Arunachal Pradesh, then it unilaterally pull back its troop back to Tibet.
Now here is the interesting part, Dali Lama hates China so much, he actually just went to Tawang recently and said Arunachal Pradesh and Tawang is an integral part of India.... that is mind blowing, he keep complain about China annex Tibet and yet, he freely openly gives away Tibet's historical land to India, shouldn't he be consider a traitor? What kind of "Free Tibet" is he fighting for when he openly give away huge chunk of Tibet to another nation, if so, what legitimacy does have trying to "free Tibet" from China?
Also I don't undersatnd India's obsession with Arunachal Pradesh and Tawang. India literately have 0 historical ties to that area, everyone there looks Asian, Arunachal Pradesh is located far east end of India territory next to Assam and Nagaland, which have many armed separatist movements trying to break off from India, also during all of India's past history it never extended that far east, the only reason it has that area is because British draw the map and says its part of British India.
From logistical point of view, Arunachal Pradesh is stretching India's supply line to the brink, maybe you can also say the same for China because getting supply to Tibet is not easy, but China have huge garrison in place near Lhasa which is located pretty close to Arunachal Pradesh. Tibet have higher ground than Arunachal Pradesh and its easier to garrison soldiers as well, China can spend very little resources and keep much of India's resource tied there.
I cannot understand India's motivation and obsession with this area, its better to sign peace treaty with China and put their resources into infrastructure and economic development than this.
The most important place in Arunachal Pradesh is Tawang monastery, many consider it to be only the 2nd holiest site after Lhasa. Funny that during the 1962 China India war, China actually took over Tawang and most of Arunachal Pradesh, then it unilaterally pull back its troop back to Tibet.
Now here is the interesting part, Dali Lama hates China so much, he actually just went to Tawang recently and said Arunachal Pradesh and Tawang is an integral part of India.... that is mind blowing, he keep complain about China annex Tibet and yet, he freely openly gives away Tibet's historical land to India, shouldn't he be consider a traitor? What kind of "Free Tibet" is he fighting for when he openly give away huge chunk of Tibet to another nation, if so, what legitimacy does have trying to "free Tibet" from China?
Also I don't undersatnd India's obsession with Arunachal Pradesh and Tawang. India literately have 0 historical ties to that area, everyone there looks Asian, Arunachal Pradesh is located far east end of India territory next to Assam and Nagaland, which have many armed separatist movements trying to break off from India, also during all of India's past history it never extended that far east, the only reason it has that area is because British draw the map and says its part of British India.
From logistical point of view, Arunachal Pradesh is stretching India's supply line to the brink, maybe you can also say the same for China because getting supply to Tibet is not easy, but China have huge garrison in place near Lhasa which is located pretty close to Arunachal Pradesh. Tibet have higher ground than Arunachal Pradesh and its easier to garrison soldiers as well, China can spend very little resources and keep much of India's resource tied there.
I cannot understand India's motivation and obsession with this area, its better to sign peace treaty with China and put their resources into infrastructure and economic development than this.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
The problem is they still can't get over 1962.Even though China is generous to India And contrary to their press China didn't initiate the war. At the end of the war the Indian government commission Gen Henderson Brook to analyze the cause of the war and the ensuing debacle
He did produce excellent report but GOI never release to the public So until today they still blame China as backstaber when actually Nehru forward policy is the cause
Excerpt
In a specially created blog, Maxwell published a chunk of the secret war report that harshly criticised the highest echelons of power in India at the time for pursuing a flawed strategy of provoking China without the means to handle a backlash.
India's toll in that short war in the high Himalayas was 1,383 killed, 1,047 wounded and 1,696 missing. China never declared its losses. The war ended when Beijing suddenly called a unilateral ceasefire and ordered its troops to retreat to their previous positions - all after dealing India its worst military drubbing.
India called the "attack" a stab in the back. But China maintained it was a necessary counterattack to fend off India's advances on its territory - Maxwell's thoughts exactly. "I had been trying for years to get the report on to the public record but it had begun to look as if the report might never be published, and I thought that would be dreadful," Maxwell told the Post in an exclusive interview. Speaking from Sydney, it was the first time he discussed his disclosure that has made waves in India.
He did produce excellent report but GOI never release to the public So until today they still blame China as backstaber when actually Nehru forward policy is the cause
Excerpt
In a specially created blog, Maxwell published a chunk of the secret war report that harshly criticised the highest echelons of power in India at the time for pursuing a flawed strategy of provoking China without the means to handle a backlash.
India's toll in that short war in the high Himalayas was 1,383 killed, 1,047 wounded and 1,696 missing. China never declared its losses. The war ended when Beijing suddenly called a unilateral ceasefire and ordered its troops to retreat to their previous positions - all after dealing India its worst military drubbing.
India called the "attack" a stab in the back. But China maintained it was a necessary counterattack to fend off India's advances on its territory - Maxwell's thoughts exactly. "I had been trying for years to get the report on to the public record but it had begun to look as if the report might never be published, and I thought that would be dreadful," Maxwell told the Post in an exclusive interview. Speaking from Sydney, it was the first time he discussed his disclosure that has made waves in India.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Here is typical of their rant imagining phantom incursion and call for strong measure Symptomatic of "1962 syndrome"
How can they say incursion when the border is never delineate and ill define. And China never recognize Simla agreement or Mc Mahon line
India should count their blessing because China never believe in settling border with war. That is why they return to LAC. They should take page from Russia who give a bit of concession in Ussuri and reap the benefit of good relation with China
The McMahon Line is regarded by India as the legal national border, but China rejects the Simla Accord and the McMahon Line, contending that Tibet was not a sovereign state and therefore did not have the power to conclude treaties. Chinese maps show some 65,000 square kilometres (25,000 sq mi) of the territory south of the line as part of the , known as in China. Chinese forces briefly occupied this area during the of 1962. China does recognise a which closely approximates most of the "so called McMahon line" in the eastern part of its border with , according to a 1959 diplomatic note by Prime Minister .
This kind of rant is not conducive for win win relationship. It only poison the atmosphere and deceive people. "Volk verdummung"
China chips away at India’s borderlands
By JUNE 19, 2017 7:00 AM (UTC+8)
Asia Times is not responsible for the opinions, facts or any media content presented by contributors. In case of abuse, .
Bite by kilometer-size bite, China is eating away at India’s Himalayan borderlands. For decades, Asia’s two giants have fought a bullet-less war for territory along their high-altitude border. Recently, though, China has become more assertive, underscoring the need for a new Indian containment strategy.
On average, China launches one stealth incursion into India every . Kiren Rijiju, India’s Minister of State for Home Affairs, says the People’s Liberation Army is actively intruding into vacant border space with the objective of occupying it. And according to a former top official with India’s Intelligence Bureau, nearly 2,000 square kilometers to PLA encroachments over the past decade.
The strategy underlying China’s actions is more remarkable than their scope. On land, like at sea, China uses civilian resources – herders, farmers, and grazers – as the tip of the spear.
Once civilians settle on contested land, army troops gain control of the disputed area, paving the way for the establishment of more permanent encampments or observation posts.
Similarly, in the South China Sea, China’s naval forces follow fishermen to carve out space for the reclamation of rocks or reefs. In both theaters, China has deployed no missiles, drones, or bullets to advance its objectives.
China’s non-violent terrestrial aggression has garnered less opposition than its , which has been challenged by the United States and under (albeit with little effect).
Indian leaders have at times even seemed to condone China’s actions. During a recent in Russia, for example, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi said that although China and India are at odds over borders, it was remarkable that “in the last 40 years, not a single bullet has been fired because of [it].” The Chinese foreign ministry responded by praising Modi’s “positive remarks.”
Moreover, Modi’s predecessor, Manmohan Singh, used to claim that, in their 5,000-year history, India and China fought only one war, in 1962. What this rose-tinted history failed to acknowledge was that China and India only after China annexed the buffer Tibet in 1951.
Given India’s accommodating rhetoric, it is easy to view the country as a paper tiger. While Modi has used the phrase “” as the motto of India-China cooperation, the PLA has continued its cynical territorial aggrandizement by translating that slogan into incremental advance. After spending so many years on the defensive, India must retake the narrative.
The first order of business is to abandon the platitudes. Modi’s calls for border peace and tranquility might be sincere, but his tone has made India look like a meek enabler.
If the tables were turned,and Indian forces were attempting to chip away at Chinese territory, the PLA would surely respond with more than words
China’s fast-growing trade surplus with India, which has doubled to almost $60 billion on Modi’s watch, has increased Chinese President Xi Jinping’s territorial assertiveness. The absence of clarity about the frontier – China reneged on a 2001 promise to exchange maps with India – serves as cover for the PLA’s aggression, with China denying all incursions and claiming that its troops are operating on “Chinese land.” But, by acquiescing on bilateral trade – the dumping of Chinese-made steel on the Indian market is just – India has inadvertently helped foot the bill for the PLA’s encirclement strategy.
China’s financial regional leverage has grown dramatically in the past decade, as it has become almost all Asian economies’ largest trade and investment partner. In turn, many of the region’s developing countries have moved toward China on matters of regional security and transport connectivity.
But, as , there remains plenty of room for India to engage in Asia’s economic development. A more regionally integrated Indian economy would, by default, serve as a counterweight to China’s territorial expansion.
India should also beef up its border security forces to become a more formidable barrier to the PLA. India’s under-resourced Indo-Tibetan Border Police, under the command of the home ministry, is little more than a doorman. Training and equipping these units properly, and placing them under the command of the army, would signal to China that the days of an open door are over.
If the tables were turned, and Indian forces were attempting to chip away at Chinese territory, the PLA would surely respond with more than words. But in many cases, Indian border police patrolling the area don’t even carry weapons. With such a docile response, China has been able to do as it pleases along India’s northern frontier. China’s support of the Pakistani military, whose forces often fire at Indian troops along the disputed Kashmir frontier, should be viewed in this light.
The PLA began honing its “salami tactics” in the Himalayas in the 1950s, when it sliced off the Switzerland-size Aksai Chin plateau. Later, China inflicted a humiliating defeat on India in the 1962 border war, securing peace, as a state mouthpiece in 2012, on its own terms. Today, China pursues a to borders, cutting off access to an adversary’s previously controlled territory and gradually surrounding it with multiple civilian and security layers.
Against this backdrop, the true sign of Himalayan peace will not be the holstering of guns, but rather the end of border incursions. India’s accommodating approach has failed to deter China. To halt further encroachments, India will need to bare its own teeth.
How can they say incursion when the border is never delineate and ill define. And China never recognize Simla agreement or Mc Mahon line
India should count their blessing because China never believe in settling border with war. That is why they return to LAC. They should take page from Russia who give a bit of concession in Ussuri and reap the benefit of good relation with China
The McMahon Line is regarded by India as the legal national border, but China rejects the Simla Accord and the McMahon Line, contending that Tibet was not a sovereign state and therefore did not have the power to conclude treaties. Chinese maps show some 65,000 square kilometres (25,000 sq mi) of the territory south of the line as part of the , known as in China. Chinese forces briefly occupied this area during the of 1962. China does recognise a which closely approximates most of the "so called McMahon line" in the eastern part of its border with , according to a 1959 diplomatic note by Prime Minister .
This kind of rant is not conducive for win win relationship. It only poison the atmosphere and deceive people. "Volk verdummung"
China chips away at India’s borderlands
By JUNE 19, 2017 7:00 AM (UTC+8)
Asia Times is not responsible for the opinions, facts or any media content presented by contributors. In case of abuse, .
Bite by kilometer-size bite, China is eating away at India’s Himalayan borderlands. For decades, Asia’s two giants have fought a bullet-less war for territory along their high-altitude border. Recently, though, China has become more assertive, underscoring the need for a new Indian containment strategy.
On average, China launches one stealth incursion into India every . Kiren Rijiju, India’s Minister of State for Home Affairs, says the People’s Liberation Army is actively intruding into vacant border space with the objective of occupying it. And according to a former top official with India’s Intelligence Bureau, nearly 2,000 square kilometers to PLA encroachments over the past decade.
The strategy underlying China’s actions is more remarkable than their scope. On land, like at sea, China uses civilian resources – herders, farmers, and grazers – as the tip of the spear.
Once civilians settle on contested land, army troops gain control of the disputed area, paving the way for the establishment of more permanent encampments or observation posts.
Similarly, in the South China Sea, China’s naval forces follow fishermen to carve out space for the reclamation of rocks or reefs. In both theaters, China has deployed no missiles, drones, or bullets to advance its objectives.
China’s non-violent terrestrial aggression has garnered less opposition than its , which has been challenged by the United States and under (albeit with little effect).
Indian leaders have at times even seemed to condone China’s actions. During a recent in Russia, for example, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi said that although China and India are at odds over borders, it was remarkable that “in the last 40 years, not a single bullet has been fired because of [it].” The Chinese foreign ministry responded by praising Modi’s “positive remarks.”
Moreover, Modi’s predecessor, Manmohan Singh, used to claim that, in their 5,000-year history, India and China fought only one war, in 1962. What this rose-tinted history failed to acknowledge was that China and India only after China annexed the buffer Tibet in 1951.
Given India’s accommodating rhetoric, it is easy to view the country as a paper tiger. While Modi has used the phrase “” as the motto of India-China cooperation, the PLA has continued its cynical territorial aggrandizement by translating that slogan into incremental advance. After spending so many years on the defensive, India must retake the narrative.
The first order of business is to abandon the platitudes. Modi’s calls for border peace and tranquility might be sincere, but his tone has made India look like a meek enabler.
If the tables were turned,and Indian forces were attempting to chip away at Chinese territory, the PLA would surely respond with more than words
China’s fast-growing trade surplus with India, which has doubled to almost $60 billion on Modi’s watch, has increased Chinese President Xi Jinping’s territorial assertiveness. The absence of clarity about the frontier – China reneged on a 2001 promise to exchange maps with India – serves as cover for the PLA’s aggression, with China denying all incursions and claiming that its troops are operating on “Chinese land.” But, by acquiescing on bilateral trade – the dumping of Chinese-made steel on the Indian market is just – India has inadvertently helped foot the bill for the PLA’s encirclement strategy.
China’s financial regional leverage has grown dramatically in the past decade, as it has become almost all Asian economies’ largest trade and investment partner. In turn, many of the region’s developing countries have moved toward China on matters of regional security and transport connectivity.
But, as , there remains plenty of room for India to engage in Asia’s economic development. A more regionally integrated Indian economy would, by default, serve as a counterweight to China’s territorial expansion.
India should also beef up its border security forces to become a more formidable barrier to the PLA. India’s under-resourced Indo-Tibetan Border Police, under the command of the home ministry, is little more than a doorman. Training and equipping these units properly, and placing them under the command of the army, would signal to China that the days of an open door are over.
If the tables were turned, and Indian forces were attempting to chip away at Chinese territory, the PLA would surely respond with more than words. But in many cases, Indian border police patrolling the area don’t even carry weapons. With such a docile response, China has been able to do as it pleases along India’s northern frontier. China’s support of the Pakistani military, whose forces often fire at Indian troops along the disputed Kashmir frontier, should be viewed in this light.
The PLA began honing its “salami tactics” in the Himalayas in the 1950s, when it sliced off the Switzerland-size Aksai Chin plateau. Later, China inflicted a humiliating defeat on India in the 1962 border war, securing peace, as a state mouthpiece in 2012, on its own terms. Today, China pursues a to borders, cutting off access to an adversary’s previously controlled territory and gradually surrounding it with multiple civilian and security layers.
Against this backdrop, the true sign of Himalayan peace will not be the holstering of guns, but rather the end of border incursions. India’s accommodating approach has failed to deter China. To halt further encroachments, India will need to bare its own teeth.
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So much wrong with that article I don't even know where to began, however this article is a great example of the typical Indian mindset on dealing with China on the border issues,
"I am always the victim, everyone else is always doing me wrong.... every little issue that is against me in reality or perception is further evidence that I am being violated upon.... why is our politician so weak? why does our politician do nothing while other walks all over us? If only we show more strength it will all be ok, we need to fight back against our aggressors, we need project our power into our aggressor's own backyard like they are doing to us."
No wonder China have resolved all land border issues with Vietnam, Russia, Pakistan, Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan, but NOT India.
"I am always the victim, everyone else is always doing me wrong.... every little issue that is against me in reality or perception is further evidence that I am being violated upon.... why is our politician so weak? why does our politician do nothing while other walks all over us? If only we show more strength it will all be ok, we need to fight back against our aggressors, we need project our power into our aggressor's own backyard like they are doing to us."
No wonder China have resolved all land border issues with Vietnam, Russia, Pakistan, Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan, but NOT India.
A former Director-General of Police in North Eastern India ( I cannot find his name while I'm somewhat groggy ) wrote an article some two years ago, I saw it in Asia Times, in which he said that the colonial masters published a volume of treaties concerning "British India" in the late 'twenties in which the Simla "agreement" was described as not ratified because it had been unacceptable to China. In the thirties they published a new edition without a year of publication which said the "agreement" had been ratified. He wrote that all but three of the old edition had been changed for the new edition. One of the original volumes is held by the Library of Congress but New Delhi only has the fakes.
My suggestion will be "Try NOT pay too much attention to those forums".
Like most defense forums in country domain, members are likely to stress on military power, and how to use it. The trend then is surely a sort of "Right" wings. (All right, I welcome those disagree with me).
I mean: people can be so ignorant. At several India forums, I ran into many who never read, and simply refuse to read, Neville Maxwell's book, and insist on arguing. What else can you say...
-- I offer similar opinion on India forums, and got slashed. Guess it's common people only want to hear what they want to hear...
If you are willing to look upon those forums, there is quite a huge concern of normal India on daily routines - economy (not been very good these days), jobs (since Trump cut H1B visa), study, tourism (young generation eager to spend more on travel despite recent recession). It's still a lovely country (I once visited there often).
Like most defense forums in country domain, members are likely to stress on military power, and how to use it. The trend then is surely a sort of "Right" wings. (All right, I welcome those disagree with me).
I mean: people can be so ignorant. At several India forums, I ran into many who never read, and simply refuse to read, Neville Maxwell's book, and insist on arguing. What else can you say...
-- I offer similar opinion on India forums, and got slashed. Guess it's common people only want to hear what they want to hear...
If you are willing to look upon those forums, there is quite a huge concern of normal India on daily routines - economy (not been very good these days), jobs (since Trump cut H1B visa), study, tourism (young generation eager to spend more on travel despite recent recession). It's still a lovely country (I once visited there often).
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It's obvious several third parties for their own advantage would love to sow and exacerbate discord between India and China when the real issues between the two are actually few and mostly stable. As usual the warmongering countries are looking to divide and conquer.
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