military Shipbuilding in general and the question: carrier or not a carrier?

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
It is not so practical to connect a bridge like crane to the top of the structure that it is building.

It makes impossible to lift up the elements from the truck, and restrict the maximum height of the structures inside.
View attachment 55375 View attachment 55376

Reason why everyone using gantry cranes.

Additionally there is no perpendicular bulkhead in the structure, that can carry the load.

And it is strange, considering that require only metal.

And finally, on the close shoot it is visibly not a crane.

Look again. The girder is supported by two bulkheads perpendicular. If you also look closer to the outermost girder, there appears to be two things hanging from it.

Shed is too small, and too tight to put billet cranes on it, and to place things inside it. I am thinking these may also be used to support a temporary overhead crane that would be installed lengthwise through the ship so items can be moved from one end to inside lengthwise throughout the ship. With the braces on top, and the ship covered by the shed, you cannot use gantry crane to move things into the ship.

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Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
The braces can only be installed after the bulkheads on the side are placed. The bulkheads both left and right, and at the bottom keel, would have to be prefabricated somewhere, moved here and joined in three pieces. You can say the braces might help to hold the two bulkheads left and right, as they are attached to the keel.

Do note this has nothing to do with tanker, bulk freighter and container ship construction.

This is how a tanker would look like. The shape of the hull of the carrier is curved and hydrodynamic, meant to travel at higher speeds, but it is less space efficient internally than a tanker. The tanker only has a few large internal bulkheads, in contrast to the carrier that has multiple bulkheads some of which are clearly for torpedo and shell (now missile) defense.

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This one is a VLOC bulk carrier. That does not look anything similar. A bulk carrier has thick, multiple layered walls as partitions. The frames on this thing is super massive, this is likely one of those 400,000 ton monsters. (Vale Beijing).


VLOC cross-section.jpg


These are all container ships. With a container ship, the hull is literally made up of bulkheads, with a structure supporting a strong deck. The containers are all loaded at the top of the deck.


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Even if 003 looks unusual in the way it is being built versus even carriers like 002, and LHDs like Type 075, what is in those sheds is still definitely a warship.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Once again, these are tankers. The double hull of a tanker is apparent, and the shape of its cross section.

2013-08-28-structure-defects-on-double-hull-tankers-figure-1.jpg


These are containerships. The "bar" you see on top of the containership under construction is part of the ship itself, and is used to support the deck that can hold over 20,000 TEU (each TEU is a 20 foot container).


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Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Once again, these are tankers. The double hull of a tanker is apparent, and the shape of its cross section.

View attachment 55390


These are containerships. The "bar" you see on top of the containership under construction is part of the ship itself, and is used to support the deck that can hold over 20,000 TEU (each TEU is a 20 foot container).


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two very nice posts Tam, even though out of my realm, they are likely the SDF posts of the Day, very nicely illustrated as well.
 
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Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
Look again. The girder is supported by two bulkheads perpendicular. If you also look closer to the outermost girder, there appears to be two things hanging from it.

Shed is too small, and too tight to put billet cranes on it, and to place things inside it. I am thinking these may also be used to support a temporary overhead crane that would be installed lengthwise through the ship so items can be moved from one end to inside lengthwise throughout the ship. With the braces on top, and the ship covered by the shed, you cannot use gantry crane to move things into the ship.

View attachment 55379
These are not cranes.

Again, the basic rule of using crane is to have a higher hook height than the highest point of the structure that it is building.

By putting it onto the hull you make it impossible.

It is pointless to repeat this crane thingy again and again.
The
-shape is not a crane
-position is not good for a crane
-material handling is not possible for a crane there
-due to the absence of perpendicular bulkheads the structure needs support
-And there is a billet crane in the shed, here is the rail of it.
rail.jpg

See? Typical crane rail, visible on every industrial building needing lifting capacity.


The presence of the support girders in this amount means it is not a typical commercial ship, only the Shanghai made warships had this many temporary support - as it was agreed few pages before.

However the presence of them means that the modules are in the very early construction stages, and they are still in smaller pieces, means they are still transportable on road to any final assembly place.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
These are not cranes.

Again, the basic rule of using crane is to have a higher hook height than the highest point of the structure that it is building.

By putting it onto the hull you make it impossible.

It is not building the hull. It is building what is inside the hull, namely the decks and floors. There is no crane access to the center of the ship or of the modules by placing the rails at the door or at the sides of the building. They have to to right over the ship. Not to mention those bars themselves prevent access to the ship by a crane higher than them. That is why it is unreasonable to assume you can lower something through those bars when they are in place. In addition to bracing the left and right bulkheads to the keel, the bars might possible support an overhead crane that goes lengthwise through the ship with material being deposited at the fore of the ship, then craned to the center or aft of the ship. While the method is unusual, the shipyard is already unusual and appears to be innovating its own techniques unique from other shipyards.

It is pointless to repeat this crane thingy again and again.
The
-shape is not a crane
-position is not good for a crane
-material handling is not possible for a crane there
-due to the absence of perpendicular bulkheads the structure needs support
-And there is a billet crane in the shed, here is the rail of it.
View attachment 55408

See? Typical crane rail, visible on every industrial building needing lifting capacity.

Check your eyes. Here is the other end of it and there is no rail there. Given that the sheds are not interconnected, where does the rail get the originating goods and how do you suppose it can land them in the middle of the ship. I see putting a rail there as making no sense at all. There is no point where you are picking up the goods, and it does not go overhead where you want it to be. In addition, all those braces are blocking access. The height of the "rail" point isn't sufficient to clear the brace.

Screenshot 2019-11-22 at 12.04.13 PM - Edited.png

The presence of the support girders in this amount means it is not a typical commercial ship, only the Shanghai made warships had this many temporary support - as it was agreed few pages before.


The bulkheads are definitely those from a warship. There is absolutely fracking no way that the design of the bulkheads and the shape of the hull and keel is that of a merchant ship.

Check all those commercial ships. They are not made with support girders. Don't mistake the structures that are meant to support the decks of container ships as support girders. Those "bridges" are not meant to support the construction of the ship; they are part of the ship itself that is meant to support the deck, were over 20,000 containers are going to be laid upon.

Be careful not to use the term "Shanghai" because Hudong Zhonghua is in the middle of Shanghai and they're the ones making the 075, 071, 054A and 056 that don't seem to be built in this manner.

However the presence of them means that the modules are in the very early construction stages, and they are still in smaller pieces, means they are still transportable on road to any final assembly place.

From what I can see, the keel, left and right bulkheads are complete on these modules, and you are building what is inside those modules. Why put a shed in the first place if the shed prevents the gantry crane from moving things into the ship? The shed is there to control the temperature of each module to prevent deformation from thermal contraction and expansion. That is already looking like they are preparing to weld the modules together and that is not very early construction stages. The braces might be there to prevent additional deformation of the modules, and the bulkheads are likely to have been fabricated from another place before they were transported there. If the welding is done, they may lift the shed and the braces, and the gantry can move and lay larger items into the hull.

This is different from 002, where in the inside of the ship built first over the keel before the bulkheads were placed on the sides. So 002 is more likely built from the inside to out, whereas in 003, the ship appears built from the outside first to in.
 
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Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
It is not building the hull. It is building what is inside the hull, namely the decks and floors. There is no crane access to the center of the ship or of the modules by placing the rails at the door or at the sides of the building. They have to to right over the ship. Not to mention those bars themselves prevent access to the ship by a crane higher than them. That is why it is unreasonable to assume you can lower something through those bars when they are in place. In addition to bracing the left and right bulkheads to the keel, the bars might possible support an overhead crane that goes lengthwise through the ship with material being deposited at the fore of the ship, then craned to the center or aft of the ship. While the method is unusual, the shipyard is already unusual and appears to be innovating its own techniques unique from other shipyards.



Check your eyes. Here is the other end of it and there is no rail there. Given that the sheds are not interconnected, where does the rail get the originating goods and how do you suppose it can land them in the middle of the ship. I see putting a rail there as making no sense at all. There is no point where you are picking up the goods, and it does not go overhead where you want it to be. In addition, all those braces are blocking access. The height of the "rail" point isn't sufficient to clear the brace.





The bulkheads are definitely those from a warship. There is absolutely fracking no way that the design of the bulkheads and the shape of the hull and keel is that of a merchant ship.

Check all those commercial ships. They are not made with support girders. Don't mistake the structures that are meant to support the decks of container ships as support girders. Those "bridges" are not meant to support the construction of the ship; they are part of the ship itself that is meant to support the deck, were over 20,000 containers are going to be laid upon.

Be careful not to use the term "Shanghai" because Hudong Zhonghua is in the middle of Shanghai and they're the ones making the 075, 071, 054A and 056 that don't seem to be built in this manner.



From what I can see, the keel, left and right bulkheads are complete on these modules, and you are building what is inside those modules. Why put a shed in the first place if the shed prevents the gantry crane from moving things into the ship? The shed is there to control the temperature of each module to prevent deformation from thermal contraction and expansion. That is already looking like they are preparing to weld the modules together and that is not very early construction stages. The braces might be there to prevent additional deformation of the modules, and the bulkheads are likely to have been fabricated from another place before they were transported there. If the welding is done, they may lift the shed and the braces, and the gantry can move and lay larger items into the hull.

This is different from 002, where in the inside of the ship built first over the keel before the bulkheads were placed on the sides. So 002 is more likely built from the inside to out, whereas in 003, the ship appears built from the outside first to in.

So, I suggest the next : get a set of LEGO, and try to construct the ship with the method suggested by you ,
IT will be quite obvious it is not possible to do with cranes attached to the ship structure, due to the reasons I described before.

Don't take it as offence, I kept training in the past with LEGO to engineering managers, to explain things like this . (It is not so effective, the best training is the "go down to the shoplfoor and do it" : ) ) .

The shed visibly has a crane , check this :
crane.png
The grey protrusion is the support of the crane rail on both side.
The white dot on the left, and the white line parallel with the shed movement axis is the rail of the crane.
The two strip hanging down is from the crane.


The workflow should be for small parts :
-move the shed beyond the edge of the structure,
-move the parts under the shed
-pick them up and move them to the assembly position

The big crane require do move into position the really big things, like the bulkheads.


And generally, if you check the corners of the modules they are weak, not capable to withstand the torque generated by the very far centre of gravity and relatively central support.
bh1.jpg

Means the modules missing the perpendicular bulkheads (that should make the module rigid and strong enough to carry its own weight ) , means the construction is in the early phases.
 
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