Littoral Combat Ships (LCS)

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Re: ¦^��: Re: US Navy Patrol Frigate Design shown at DIMDEX by Ingalls

The next flight Burkes will be the bridge. Still not clear how many of those will be built.

But something like the CGX will ultimately be designed and built.

It may end up being, in essence a Burke flight IV, but at that point, to incorporate the new tech developments and lessons learned at that time, the current hull and physical design mat constrain them too much.

Depending on the admin and congress, And depending on how the three vessels planned do, i would not be surprised to see more zumwalts built...and maybe ultimately a CG version for AAW yet.

While a future, larger CG(X) would be nice to accommodate new technology that will undoubtedly be available, the reason they are going for a third flight of arleigh burkes as cruisers are because of cost mainly (correct me if I'm wrong)?
Although there are questions already getting asked about flight iii burkes, with issues related to the ship's small space and apparently small size of AMDR to fit to the hull without drastically modifying it. But with the budget cuts they have to implement, added to the almost inherent rising costs and delays in recent US naval ship building, I feel like flight iii burkes are the only way to go if the USN wants cruisers to replace the ticos in the next decade or so.

A larger, zumwalt based/future CG(X) imho will not be seen for many years either from the USN or any other country, and zumwalt will be the largest surface combatants (apart from russian battlecruisers) for a while yet.

Personally I will be very surprised if more than three zumwalts are built; they're going to be great ships but very expensive and overkill when arleigh burkes are already the most potent DDGs in the world and there are already some sixty in service...
 

navyreco

Senior Member
Re: ¦^��: Re: US Navy Patrol Frigate Design shown at DIMDEX by Ingalls

I can't believe I attended DIMDEX and yet I missed this...
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
¦^ÂÃ: Re: ¦^��: Re: US Navy Patrol Frigate Design shown at DIMDEX by Ingalls

While a future, larger CG(X) would be nice to accommodate new technology that will undoubtedly be available, the reason they are going for a third flight of arleigh burkes as cruisers are because of cost mainly (correct me if I'm wrong)?
Although there are questions already getting asked about flight iii burkes, with issues related to the ship's small space and apparently small size of AMDR to fit to the hull without drastically modifying it. But with the budget cuts they have to implement, added to the almost inherent rising costs and delays in recent US naval ship building, I feel like flight iii burkes are the only way to go if the USN wants cruisers to replace the ticos in the next decade or so.

A larger, zumwalt based/future CG(X) imho will not be seen for many years either from the USN or any other country, and zumwalt will be the largest surface combatants (apart from russian battlecruisers) for a while yet.

Personally I will be very surprised if more than three zumwalts are built; they're going to be great ships but very expensive and overkill when arleigh burkes are already the most potent DDGs in the world and there are already some sixty in service...
With CGX I am talking twenty years from now. Depending on the admin and congress you could see new zumwalts, another 3-5 , starting in the 2014 budget.

NAVRECO, you got to DIMDEX? Outstanding. I would love to attend one.
 

navyreco

Senior Member
Re: ¦^ÂÃ: Re: ¦^��: Re: US Navy Patrol Frigate Design shown at DIMDEX by Ingalls

NAVRECO, you got to DIMDEX? Outstanding. I would love to attend one.

Yes I have...

Here was my coverage (I created a thread in the pictures section of the forum but I guess a lot of members missed it):

News:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Pictures:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Unfortunatly too little time to visit all ships and visit all exhibitors

I spent 1 hour on Cassard, learned they are fitting TRS3D radars on them and considering modifying them to be able to launch SM2... SM1 are reaching their "use by date" and funds are running low. The officer I talked to don't believe the AAW version of the FREMMs will be funded and French Navy is looking at options to add more life to Cassard and Jean Bart...

I spent 1 hour 30 minutes on the Moroccan Navy Sigma corvette. Nice modern ship.

I only had 30 minutes left for USS Pearl Harbor, I really regretted that because the 30 minutes I spent on it were awesome and the Marine that was my guide really made the most of my time, trying to show me as much things as possible on the deck and in the well deck. Those ships are huge (I hope I get to tour a LPD 17 class and Mistral class one day tho... an amphib that is a bit more "up to dat" i mean...)
 

delft

Brigadier
Re: ¦^ÂÃ: Re: ¦^��: Re: US Navy Patrol Frigate Design shown at DIMDEX by Ingalls

This might be the place to mention the very pessimistic article in Aviation Week about the Burke flight III:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

If the trouble is as big as depicted here they can hardly be built. Would there be money for a much smaller number of Zumwalds?
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Re: ¦^ÂÃ: Re: ¦^��: Re: US Navy Patrol Frigate Design shown at DIMDEX by Ingalls

This might be the place to mention the very pessimistic article in Aviation Week about the Burke flight III:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

If the trouble is as big as depicted here they can hardly be built. Would there be money for a much smaller number of Zumwalds?

How small are we talking, say another two, three zumwalts on top the three already on order?
Zumwalts are orientated to land attack, and "only" hold 80 VLS cells compared to burkes 96 and ticos ~120. Cruisers in the USN are meant to be the central defensive ships, carrying the most missiles, most powerful sensors and most comprehensive command stations. Building Zumwalts as they currently are without modification, and in such small a number cannot replace the ticos currently in service, and if they moved to modify the Zumwalts (i.e.: remove one of the AGS for greater missile room, other internal changes), it may well be that further delays and cost increases will result.

At the moment it looks like flight three burkes will be the only viable way to get replacements for ticos with ships of similar missile load, and in the numbers needed
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Littoral Combat Ships (LCS); Which is best?

The 2nd Freedom style LCS, USS Ft. Worth, LCS-3, completed its builder's trials last week (May 4, 2012) and will soon be commissioned.

The 2nd Independence style LCS, USS Coronado, LCS-4, is about to be launched and start its builder trials.

Here's a link to GREAT videos the builder's trials fro LCS-2, USS Independence, and LCS-3, USS Ft. Worth.

Very impressive. The videos are worth watching, just go to the linked picture below, and then click on the 2nd and 3rd videos there:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

aksha

Captain
Re: Littoral Combat Ships (LCS); Which is best?

UXV Combatant
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Artist depiction of the UXV Combatant
General characteristics
Type: Multirole ship
Displacement: approx. 8,000 long tons (8,128 t)
Length: 500 ft (152.4 m)
Beam: 70 ft (21 m)
Propulsion: Un-confirmed
Speed: 27 knots (50 km/h; 31 mph)
Complement: 60 (not including UVX support crew)[1]
Sensors and
processing systems: Radio Frequency Identification sensors, infrared, radar
Armament: • 20 × MK 57 VLS modules, comprising a total of 80 missiles
• Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile (ESSM)
• Tactical Tomahawk Vertical Launch Anti-Submarine Rocket (ASROC)
• 1 × 155 mm gun (920 × 155 mm)
• 2 × Mk 110 57 mm gun (CIWS)
• 4 × CIWS missile launchers
Aircraft carried:
Taranis UCAV or other UCAVs.
Merlin and Lynx wildcat or possible new helicopters.
possibly VTOL or STOL aircraft.
other Various aircraft ranging from anti-submarine helicopters, Helicopter gunships,Unmanned helicopters or others.
Aviation facilities: small hangars below launch decks
The UXV Combatant is a concept warship designed by BVT Surface Fleet (now BAE Systems Surface Ships),[2] which was displayed at the Defence Security and Equipment International (DSEi) in 2007.[3] If built it would be expected to displace approximately 8,000 tonnes and "launch, operate and recover large numbers of small unmanned vehicles for extended periods, the UXV plays the role of mother ship - a permanent base and control centre for the futuristic unmanned land, sea and air vehicles before, during and on completion of their missions".[3] If approved, it would be expected to enter service with the Royal Navy some time after 2020.[1] It shares some common design features with the Type 45 destroyer, which will be beneficial both to the ease of production and cost.
Contents [hide]
1 Design
2 Projected Missions
3 References
4 External links
[edit]Design

It is expected the UXV Combatant will feature two decks for launching unmanned aircraft, V/STOL (Vertical/Short Take-off and Landing) aircraft, and helicopters; arrayed in a "V" shape. Each deck would be approximately 164 feet (50 m) in length.[citation needed] To launch drones/ V/STOL craft, the UXV could be expected to use electromagnetic catapults, and ramps (ramps are currently used on many aircraft carriers around the world). The UXV is also reported to be capable of launching unmanned underwater vehicles (UUVs) from a port on its underside and, in addition, will be able to deploy amphibious troops, just as many destroyers today. To provide covering fire for amphibious operations, each UXV will possibly be equipped with a 155 mm cannon (planned as an upgrade from the current 4.5 inch Mark 8 mod 1 gun). The cannon will be able to fire bursts of 20 rounds, in rapid succession. The UXV will be expected to have the capability of striking longer range targets with vertical missile-launch platforms.
[edit]Projected Missions

The UXV Combatant if approved should be able to fill a wide variety of mission roles; which unmanned vehicles it would carry would depend on its mission.[1]
One expected role will be reconnaissance, through the use of unmanned drones. Another, as a V/STOL carrier, meaning that it will be able to launch aircraft very close to the proposed targets. The UXV Combatant should be able to deploy assault troops, or cover them, with Vertical Launch Missile Systems, and 155 mm guns. For anti-submarine warfare (ASW), the UXV Combatant might carry unmanned underwater vehicles, high-tech sonars, and manned ASW helicopters.[1] As with many current warships, the UXV Combatant will be able to fill the role of long-range strike platform with its Vertical Launch Missile Systems, which is expected to be placed just forward of its superstructure. Consequently, it will be able to fulfil a wide variety of roles of the Royal Navy from long-range reconnaissance to small-scale assault. Its small complement, just over 60 and versatility compared to other equatable vessels, means it will provide numerous vessels that can more discreetly operate over a larger area, ideal for asymmetric warfare, special forces deployment and small deterrence or reconnaissance missions. With the addition of these weapon systems which are common on frigates and destroyers the UXV Combatant should be able to act by itself, and as an escort, as well as a drone launching carrier.

---------- Post added at 09:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:53 PM ----------

UXV Combatant
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Artist depiction of the UXV Combatant
General characteristics
Type: Multirole ship
Displacement: approx. 8,000 long tons (8,128 t)
Length: 500 ft (152.4 m)
Beam: 70 ft (21 m)
Propulsion: Un-confirmed
Speed: 27 knots (50 km/h; 31 mph)
Complement: 60 (not including UVX support crew)[1]
Sensors and
processing systems: Radio Frequency Identification sensors, infrared, radar
Armament: • 20 × MK 57 VLS modules, comprising a total of 80 missiles
• Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile (ESSM)
• Tactical Tomahawk Vertical Launch Anti-Submarine Rocket (ASROC)
• 1 × 155 mm gun (920 × 155 mm)
• 2 × Mk 110 57 mm gun (CIWS)
• 4 × CIWS missile launchers
Aircraft carried:
Taranis UCAV or other UCAVs.
Merlin and Lynx wildcat or possible new helicopters.
possibly VTOL or STOL aircraft.
other Various aircraft ranging from anti-submarine helicopters, Helicopter gunships,Unmanned helicopters or others.
Aviation facilities: small hangars below launch decks
The UXV Combatant is a concept warship designed by BVT Surface Fleet (now BAE Systems Surface Ships),[2] which was displayed at the Defence Security and Equipment International (DSEi) in 2007.[3] If built it would be expected to displace approximately 8,000 tonnes and "launch, operate and recover large numbers of small unmanned vehicles for extended periods, the UXV plays the role of mother ship - a permanent base and control centre for the futuristic unmanned land, sea and air vehicles before, during and on completion of their missions".[3] If approved, it would be expected to enter service with the Royal Navy some time after 2020.[1] It shares some common design features with the Type 45 destroyer, which will be beneficial both to the ease of production and cost.
Contents [hide]
1 Design
2 Projected Missions
3 References
4 External links
[edit]Design

It is expected the UXV Combatant will feature two decks for launching unmanned aircraft, V/STOL (Vertical/Short Take-off and Landing) aircraft, and helicopters; arrayed in a "V" shape. Each deck would be approximately 164 feet (50 m) in length.[citation needed] To launch drones/ V/STOL craft, the UXV could be expected to use electromagnetic catapults, and ramps (ramps are currently used on many aircraft carriers around the world). The UXV is also reported to be capable of launching unmanned underwater vehicles (UUVs) from a port on its underside and, in addition, will be able to deploy amphibious troops, just as many destroyers today. To provide covering fire for amphibious operations, each UXV will possibly be equipped with a 155 mm cannon (planned as an upgrade from the current 4.5 inch Mark 8 mod 1 gun). The cannon will be able to fire bursts of 20 rounds, in rapid succession. The UXV will be expected to have the capability of striking longer range targets with vertical missile-launch platforms.
[edit]Projected Missions

The UXV Combatant if approved should be able to fill a wide variety of mission roles; which unmanned vehicles it would carry would depend on its mission.[1]
One expected role will be reconnaissance, through the use of unmanned drones. Another, as a V/STOL carrier, meaning that it will be able to launch aircraft very close to the proposed targets. The UXV Combatant should be able to deploy assault troops, or cover them, with Vertical Launch Missile Systems, and 155 mm guns. For anti-submarine warfare (ASW), the UXV Combatant might carry unmanned underwater vehicles, high-tech sonars, and manned ASW helicopters.[1] As with many current warships, the UXV Combatant will be able to fill the role of long-range strike platform with its Vertical Launch Missile Systems, which is expected to be placed just forward of its superstructure. Consequently, it will be able to fulfil a wide variety of roles of the Royal Navy from long-range reconnaissance to small-scale assault. Its small complement, just over 60 and versatility compared to other equatable vessels, means it will provide numerous vessels that can more discreetly operate over a larger area, ideal for asymmetric warfare, special forces deployment and small deterrence or reconnaissance missions. With the addition of these weapon systems which are common on frigates and destroyers the UXV Combatant should be able to act by itself, and as an escort, as well as a drone launching carrier.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Littoral Combat Ships (LCS); Which is best?

UXV Combatant
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Artist depiction of the UXV Combatant
General characteristics
Type: Multirole ship.
The discussion of the UXV is really not realted to the LCS. It is a multi-role, large DDG vessel, while the LCS is a much smaller, modular role vessel for the littorals.

Two completely different roles and vessels.

This thread is about the LCS...let's try to keep the discussion about that.

Start a seperate thread about the UVX and such vessels...it sounds like a cheaper proposed competitor for the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
which has most of the same characteristics and which the US is currently building three of.
 

delft

Brigadier
Re: LCS-1

From Marine Forum:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


03 July

Years after it had been realized the crew size of littoral combat ships was much too small, the US Navy finally has decided to increase the number of sailors on the ships … LCS1 FREEDOM to have 20 additional berths permanently installed … current core crew given as just 40.

Does this mean that operating these ships will be very much more expensive?
 
Top