Littoral Combat Ships (LCS)

Discussion in 'World Armed Forces' started by Jeff Head, Oct 14, 2006.

  1. Brumby
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    The problem is that you are making a bunch of generalised claims without one shred of research data to support your overall argument.
     
  2. Tam
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    Oh and you think one sentence taken out of context from a research paper makes your argument.
     
  3. Brumby
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    At least I have referenced a number of research data. I can provide more. What have you provided besides claims?
     
  4. Tam
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    Tam Senior Member
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    You read highly generalized reports, typical of RAND. Why don't you break down how much of weapons and systems are R/D cost and software development cost.

    Anyone with some basic understanding of IT understands that software represents the greatest cost of all.

    Go to the 052C/D thread and look at the numbers. Please have some understanding how volumes matter in production costs. And its basic accounting. If you have a 100 dollars of research cost, making only two items means you have to have pay off your research cost by only selling these two. This means your R/D cost each is $50. Make 10, and the R/D cost per unit is $10. Make a hundred and the R/D cost is $1. That's also how the chip industry works.
     
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  6. Brumby
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    Please provide some numbers then to back up your position.

    Don't bother with the R&D amortization explanation. I do that for a living.
     
  7. Brumby
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    Taking your example it actually undermine your argument. If you want to go by economies of scale and as I pointed out from the CSIS report, China's local manufactures only produce 8% of the world wide capacity. When it comes to GaN the US currently has the biggest market share. China might eventually catch up but it is no help with your argument

    upload_2019-5-31_21-20-26.png
     
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  8. Tam
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    That's only who are making the devices. The US does not mine a single ounce of it.

    China accounted for the vast majority of mining and refining of Gallium.

    https://prd-wret.s3-us-west-2.amazo...on/s3fs-public/atoms/files/mcs-2019-galli.pdf


    Screenshot 2019-06-01 at 2.33.01 AM - Edited.png
     
  9. Tam
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    Tam Senior Member
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    That's labor for the shipbuilding itself. There is a labor cost in the development, coding, assembly and integration of weapons and electronics, that's already part of the those systems themselves. It will only cost you $90 for an FPGA chip, but what is the manhours required and the cost for the developers doing the microcode on it for a particular application?
     
  10. Tam
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    Tam Senior Member
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    This is how you mislead in argument. By modifying the language.

    The keyword is DEVICES. These firms buy the GaN wafers then put them on the fabs to make devices. They design and make GaN devices. They are not however, the source of the substrates, anymore than a book publisher is the paper factory. Military however, uses boutique fabs, meaning companies like Raytheon and Northrop Grumman does not rely on these companies but fab devices on their own fabs. They only need to acquire the wafers from somewhere else.

    An example is this company, which happens to be a world leader in making GaN wafers but isn't mentioned in the above.

    https://www.epigan.com/

    http://www.allos-semiconductors.com/technology/

    Want to buy bulk GaN wafers in China? Just a few.

    http://en.nanowin.com.cn/

    http://www.galliumnitrides.com/

    http://www.semiconchina.org/en/362

    https://www.powerwaywafer.com/gan-wafer

    https://www.pntpower.com/767/

    https://www.pntpower.com/enkris-semiconductor-shows-1600v-breakdown-gan-hemt-on-200mm-si-wafer/

    http://www.semiconductor-today.com/news_items/2015/mar/skysilicon_050315.shtml

    This particular page even shows links for GaN wafer substrates for RF use.

    https://www.powerwaywafer.com/gan-wafer/gan-hemt-epitaxial-wafer.html

    https://www.powerwaywafer.com/gan-on-sapphire-for-rf.html

    https://www.powerwaywafer.com/gan-on-sic-for-rf.html

    https://www.powerwaywafer.com/gan-on-si-for-rf.html

    A lot of GaN wafers goes into lighting. China is pushing GaN based LED lighting nationwide to replace other forms of lighting in order to greatly reduce the power bills.

    http://www.galliumnitridewafer.com/supplier-248923-gallium-nitride-wafer

    Sells to the US too.

    http://www.corenergysemi.com/
     
    #2260 Tam, May 31, 2019
    Last edited: May 31, 2019
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