Korean War 70 years later Win Lose and A draw

Discussion in 'Military History' started by TerraN_EmpirE, Jan 5, 2020.

  1. Quickie
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    Quickie Major

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    That wasn't really the case. What's the use of the warships staying at home rotting? The bulk of the armada of warships of the Dutch Empire was already on location to stand guard over the colonies and to fight against other competing colonists to gain territories. The Dutch fought decades-long battle with the Portuguese in an effort to capture Malacca before finally succeeding.
     
  2. Viktor Jav
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    Viktor Jav Senior Member
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    Things aren't exactly peaceful at home either, the Dutch had to also safe guard their own home waters against potential rivals especially against the English. In fact it was in the battle of Lowesoft in which the Dutch committed their fleet against the British and was decisively defeat.
    To put that into context, in that battle the Dutch Republic committed 103 ships. While in the first assault of Malacca the Dutch Company committed a mere 11 ships.
    The amount of troops that the Portugese mustered to take Malacca was even more paltry in comparison, just 700 troops,11 carracks 3 caravels and 2 Gallery. In comparison to the ship of the line that was used by the Dutch it was really no contest. That it took so long is more likely due to the financial strain of the VOC as well as the lack of a determined drive.
     
    #72 Viktor Jav, Jan 17, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
  3. Quickie
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    Quickie Major

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    An expected battle between 2 neighboring countries is going to involve a built-up of many ships. The Mongol invasion of Japan hundreds of years earlier involved a built-up of even more ships.
     
  4. solarz
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    solarz Brigadier

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    So we've gone from discussing the Korean war to Dutch colonialism in the 17th century? LOL
     
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  5. Gatekeeper
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    Gatekeeper Senior Member
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    Give them some rope, it's not often we discuss things of history in. China. Lol
     
  6. Just4Fun
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    Just4Fun Junior Member
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    No Comparability at all Between Rus-Jap war and Sino-US war

    The Rus-Jap war of 1904 was fought between two running dogs of the Western Dominance club over robbing a piece meat from the Sick-man China. Both Tsar Russia and Imperial Japan were later-comers to the Western colonist feast that had been going on since 1492. Both were small powers in the Western Dominance club. And both were treated as inferiors by elite Western dominant powers. Tsar Russia was looked down by its Caucasian cousins due to its backward industrialization and poor social development. Imperial Japan was treated as a second class inside the Western Dominance club due to, besides its relatively backward industrialization, its unfavorable racial profile. Western elite powers ranked them both as coffee boys, not equal members.

    What fuss could two coffee boys' fight stir up in the house of an elite club? A storm inside a coffee pot to say the most. Their social status determined the maximal potential of the coffee boy fight. The Rus-Jap war of 1904 is so trivia that left almost no mark in world history. It has no comparability at all to the Sino-America war of the 1950s.

    Unlike the Rus-Jap war of 1904, the Sino-America war of the 1950s fundamentally overturned the status quo of the past 500 years since 1492. From Christopher Columbus' discovery of the New Continent in 1492 to the start of the Korean War in 1950, the Western way of dominating the world had been the military power play. That is, coming to the doorstep of other countries, using advanced military hardware to subdue local residents, and enslaving them. This Western military power play of 500 years has never failed, and has been the kingpin of Western dominance to conquer the world. But this Western military power play suddenly came to its end when an agricultural China with backward military hardware defeated, MILITARILY, the best army of King World in battle fields in Korea. This event has changed the development course of the world from then on. And the world is no longer the same in the eyes of both Westerners and non-Westerners.

    If there is anything that makes the Rus-Jap war of 1904 commendable today, that is the ugly inflation of Japanese ego after it became a junior member of the Western Dominance club. Japan used its unhappy experience in the Western club as an excuse to justify its aggression in Asia and its win in the Rus-Jap war of 1904 further intensified the Japanese ego inflation. Under the influence of an inflated ego, Japan robbed its neighbors of their properties, burned down its friends' houses, raided its teacher's home, raped its friend's daughters and wives, slaughtered its neighbors' families,... It committed terrible anti-human war crimes all over the Asia-Pacific and bred a variant of secondary class Japanese toads in Taiwan.

    Today, when you see an Asian of non-Japanese origin glorify Imperial Japan, the chances are, nine out of ten, you've entered a Taiwanese Green Toad, aka a spiritual Japanese. Never waste you time and energy on trying to educate a spiritual Jap. Being somebody else spiritually, a Taiwan Green Toad is, nine out of ten, below the level of educable. The only proper way to educate the Taiwan Green Toads is, choosing a sunny day after China eliminates absolute poverty in 2021, to wipe all of them into the Pacific, let them choose among swimming to their colonial breeder of Japan, or swimming to their new master Uncle Sam, or swimming back to the Chinese territory of Taiwan. They'll have to learn how to save themselves in front life and death reality.
     
  7. Viktor Jav
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    Viktor Jav Senior Member
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    Which proves my point that the VOC cannot muster the same kind of resources and ships that the Dutch Republic could.
     
  8. Quickie
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    Quickie Major

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    They could if they choose to, but they would have to weigh against the chances of success and the huge cost that would be incurred in terms of human life and money, made doubly worse by the kind of logistic required due to the long distance.


    Talking about the cost in terms of human life and financial resources, the siege of Fort Zeelandia and the battle of Lowestoft is comparable especially in terms of the number of Dutch soldiers and their allies killed and wounded. The reason why the number of ships involved was smaller was that it was mostly a land war with the Dutch and their local allies defending against the invading Ming forces.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Fort_Zeelandia

    In regard to financial resources,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_India_Company
    $7.9 trillion cap value is much bigger than 1 trillion caps value of the few American companies today and is almost double the GDP of the world's third-largest economy. They definitely were not lacking in the financial resources department when it comes to hiring and arming local allies to fight for them.
     
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  9. Max Demian
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    Max Demian Junior Member
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    Sorry, but a lot of inaccuracies in just this part of your post. As others have pointed out, a pre-eminent western power was defeated by Ming loyalists in the 17th century, an event which brought the island of Taiwan firmly into Chinese orbit.

    Second, this "backward" peasant army that you talk of may not have had an impressive air force or navy, but its ground forces were battle hardened and reasonably well equipped (at least in the beginning). Plus it had a superpower watching its back and providing air cover. They inflicted a humiliating defeat to the US 8th army within the first six weeks of joining the conflict, in what Secretary of State Acheson called "the greatest defeat of American arms since the Second Battle of Bull Run". However, the US Navy and Air force helped turn the tide of battle and allow the overrun UN ground forces to regroup and push back and ultimately achieve a strategic stalemate. The attempted communist takeover of South Korea was foiled and a bit more territory was gained than before the start of the conflict, so difficult to portray that as defeat for the UN. Both sides wanted to de-escalate and prevent further commitment of armed forces. The USAF bombed the crap out of NK to the point that there were literally no targets left, including most forms of civilian infrastructure. War weariness set in, and a face saving armistice was produced.
     
    #79 Max Demian, Jan 18, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
  10. Max Demian
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    Max Demian Junior Member
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    Militarily, I think, the Korean War saw China in positive light, as it showed itself capable to fight the UN to a standstill.

    Politically, however, there were some clear negatives:
    1. PRC was condemned as an aggressor state by the UN
    2. The US decides to keep Taiwan out of PRCs reach. I am not sure whether it was the onset of the Korean War or the defeat of the Nationalist China that caused the US to change its intentions in regard to handing Taiwan over to China, but the Korean War certainly entrenched them in the position that Taiwan shall not be restored to China in the WW2 peace treaty.
    3. Possibility of rapprochement with the US lost for two decades.
     
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