Korean War 70 years later Win Lose and A draw

Discussion in 'Military History' started by TerraN_EmpirE, Jan 5, 2020.

  1. Gatekeeper
    Offline

    Gatekeeper Senior Member
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2018
    Messages:
    1,760
    Likes Received:
    4,329
    Exactly, this is the thing that makes me laugh with these self-deluding politicians in Taiwan. They know deep in their heart, a foreign country is not going to risk their soldiers' blood to protect a place that has no importance or add any strategic value.

    Particularly, if they are going to be on the receiving end of a bad ending!
     
  2. Jura
    Offline

    Jura General

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    24,090
    Likes Received:
    27,825
    gosh
    Just4Fun
    Junior Member
    from 1400 Defense Pentagon Washington, DC 20301-1400


    into the Report window went:
    preposterous claim about the US during WW2 "... joining winning side only before the war was about to end." ?!?! plus the US suffered more than 400k KIA during 3+ years of the war effort so 'Just4Fun' is trolling as far as I can tell
     
    Max Demian and TerraN_EmpirE like this.
  3. Quickie
    Offline

    Quickie Major

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2007
    Messages:
    3,079
    Likes Received:
    2,365
    (Don't speak like that. You're being rude to people who use a crutch. Nothing wrong to use a crutch. You'll probably use one when you get old enough.)
    What about the allies? I have to keep repeating this. It's hard to believe they have almost no allies when the numbers killed were 1600, meaning that only 200 surrendered and the rest numbering 1600 killed?
    The number of 1800 soldiers was for the Zeelandia island alone. If you read the wiki article, there was also a garrison of 500 soldiers at Fort Provincia and hundreds of other soldiers on the islands in Bay of Taiwan.

    It's not a red herring. The British East India Company is a good example of the amount of resources the Dutch VOC would have had and what they could do with it in terms of how many soldiers they could hire etc. It's not like what you've claimed that these East India Companies had very limited resources and the ability to hire only 10,000 soldiers or so. The reasons why the Dutch East India Company didn't go beyond 10000 soldiers had nothing to do with limited finance and resources but more to do with geopolitical reasons and opportunity of the time.

    .

    The battle at Fort Zeelandia is more significant than you think since it determined the fate of Taiwan over the next hundreds of years. This is the opinion of a few authors who have written about it

    "The Siege of Fort Zeelandia of 1661–1662 ended the Dutch East India Company's rule over Taiwan and began the Kingdom of Tungning's rule over the island. Taiwanese scholar Lu Chien-jung described this event as "a war that determined the fate of Taiwan in the four hundred years that followed".

    "Andrade, Tonio (2008). "Chapter 11: The Fall of Dutch Taiwan". How Taiwan Became Chinese : Dutch, Spanish and Han Colonization in the Seventeenth Century. New York: Columbia University Press. ISBN 9780231128551."

    As for the rest of the post:
    It seems that we disagree on the extent of the power of the East India Companies and what their actual purpose was. I tend to think of them as a vehicle for colonization with the financial and political backing of the government, while you seem to think they are private companies with limited private resources that depended on how much money they made or lost and these companies would prefer to have no link to the government.
     
    #103 Quickie, Jan 21, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
  4. Max Demian
    Offline

    Max Demian Junior Member
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    316
    Likes Received:
    128
    LOL. The strategic bombing over Germany conducted by USAAF from 1942 never happened?
    What does that make the ROC then? They only declared war on Japan only after the US and the Allies declared war on them, more than 4 years after the Marco Polo bridge incident.

    How about that lil war of 1812, where the US declared war on the United Kingdom, and suffered the White House and Capitol being burned down?
     
    #104 Max Demian, Jan 21, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
    TerraN_EmpirE likes this.
  5. Viktor Jav
    Offline

    Viktor Jav Senior Member
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2017
    Messages:
    1,264
    Likes Received:
    816
     
  6. Quickie
    Offline

    Quickie Major

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2007
    Messages:
    3,079
    Likes Received:
    2,365
    You're just repeating the same type of arguments that I've responded to in my previous post.

    My argument has at the start never been about the size of a particular battle but about the type of vehicle those East India Companies were and the extent of backing they got from the government.


    Here is the proof from the lion's mouth that the Dutch East India Company was not the average private company you seem to suggest.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_India_Company

    The company (Dutch_East_India_Company) was historically an exemplary company-state[e] rather than a pure for-profit corporation. Originally a government-backed military-commercial enterprise, the VOC was the wartime brainchild of leading Dutch republican statesman Johan van Oldenbarnevelt and the States-General.
    From its inception in 1602, the Company was not only a commercial enterprise but also effectively an instrument of war in the young Dutch Republic's revolutionary global war against the powerful Spanish Empire and Iberian Union (1579–1648). In 1619, the Company forcibly established a central position in the Javanese city of Jayakarta, changing the name to Batavia (modern-day Jakarta). Over the next two centuries the Company acquired additional ports as trading bases and safeguarded their interests by taking over surrounding territory.[54]
     
  7. Viktor Jav
    Offline

    Viktor Jav Senior Member
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2017
    Messages:
    1,264
    Likes Received:
    816
    And yet you went on to bring up presumptive numbers of natives involved in the conflict, the potential numbers of troops that the VOC can raise and so on.

    You can try as you like, but the fact is the Siege of Zeelandia does not count as the first instance an Asian power manage to contest a European power on equal grounds.
     
  8. Quickie
    Offline

    Quickie Major

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2007
    Messages:
    3,079
    Likes Received:
    2,365
    It's not presumptive, just a guess as reasonable as possible.

    People can have their own opinion as to how important an event is. Just don't force it on others.

    No time now. I got to get back to work
     
  9. Viktor Jav
    Offline

    Viktor Jav Senior Member
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2017
    Messages:
    1,264
    Likes Received:
    816
    "a guess as biased as possible to suit my agenda " Fixed that for you.
    "How many natives should the Dutch have on their side ? Let's make it the same number as the defenders, just so it gives them the edge".
    "People can have their own opinion as to how important an event is. Just don't force it on others."
    Ironic, since you were so insistent on making Zeelandia such an apocalyptic and groundshaking event when it clearly wasn't.
     
  10. Quickie
    Offline

    Quickie Major

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2007
    Messages:
    3,079
    Likes Received:
    2,365
    How is that ironic? Read the sentence again.

    You still at it?

    I knew you were somewhat pesky. I didn't know you're that pesky.

    You're wasting my time.
     
Loading...

Share This Page