Korean War 70 years later Win Lose and A draw

Discussion in 'Military History' started by TerraN_EmpirE, Jan 5, 2020.

  1. TerraN_EmpirE
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    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

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    2020 marks the 70th year since the start of the Korean War. This conflict marks a critical turning point of 20th century history.
    As such I felt a thread dedicated to it should be opened not to hash out a possible future conflict but for the historical events.
    This war could be viewed as a Win a Loss or a Draw depending on your perspective.
    For The PRC it’s events would shift them to the seat in the UN Security Council.
    For the US it would shift them from nascent Superpower to standing one.
    For the Russians it was there first push to similarly shift from a regional power to a super power. For Both Korea’s it would carve a deep long lasting scar as both sides unleashed bloody retribution upon the populations and leave the two nations divided at almost the same line they started with.

    The conflict started based on the end of the Second World War. When after The defeat of Japan the US and USSR occupied the Korean Peninsula in accordance with war time agreements divided at the 38th Parallel. The US to the South the North for the USSR.
     
  2. Hendrik_2000
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    Hendrik_2000 Brigadier

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    For China it was fought with great sacrifice, blood and tears. Against all odd she halt the McArthur advance and push back the 8th army all the way to Pusan. But it bought 70 years of peace allowing China to developed and become the 2nd largest economy in the world.
    From then on nobody dare to invade China proper prompting then general who sign the armistice to say this is the first time American fought and not won the war.

    It mark a turning point in Chinese history and once for all discarded the mantle of "sick man of Asia". And it can be said the milestone for coming of age for China, returning to its former position of great military power
    It give great boost of confidence to the Chinese people in China and overseas to tackle the upcoming great battle against poverty and backwardness
    It confer the legitimacy of CCP ruling over China.

    So overall it is positive of China I would say

     
  3. Hendrik_2000
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    Hendrik_2000 Brigadier

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    The battle of Shanggangling finally convince the UN and US that Korean war is unwinnable It is celebrated in China with this film and song still played today



     
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  4. Jura
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    Jura General

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    I wished I knew this topic more -- now had to recall which books on it I read (many years ago):

    Catchpole's "The Korean War"
    and a translation of "Korean War Aces" by Robert F. Dorr, Jon Lake and Warren Thompson

    that's it
     
  5. Gatekeeper
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    Gatekeeper Senior Member
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    Great analysis, Hendrik, and welcome back, we missed your input!

    Yeah, now with 20 20 hindsight, I think China definately benefitted by halting US advances (at great cost, with little and outdated Soviets equipment). And forced the biggest superpower the world have ever seen to sign an armistice without winning for the first time in her history! So definately a win for China.

    A loss for the US, because their immediate objectives was not achived, and longer term, had to caught China to counter the Soviets, and thus ejecting long time "friend and allies", ROC, AKA Taiwan. Not only from its embrace, but from the UN, and all other countries that come with it, leaving to today's less than 15 country recognising ROC.

    In adfition, China was able to get on with building her economic miracle to a point where we are today, and Trump trying to reverse that, but alas, too late! And now China is labeled as a COMPETITOR! (wrong in my view, but fear driven them to it)!

    The looser? Well, the Soviets for sure, having lost influence of North Korea to China, it then imploded, the rest is history!

    Also, the Korean people is a big looser, as family devided, etc. And both state becoming Vassal state of superpowers. (mind you, it's still better than being colonial)!

    Which leads to Japan...., for them, they believe they have done nothing wrong, and lost their colony by force for doing nothing wrong........... I think I stop here before I get into hot water with the Mods.
     
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  6. TerraN_EmpirE
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    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

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    My Hope is that as we get closer to do a post of the week outlining events as they happened so to speak. The first two events being next week with the 12th the Dean Acheson speech and to see if We can find a translation of a transcript of Kim Is-Sung’s proposal for the “liberation” of Korea on the 17th. I know it’s a long project the war is 3 years long.
    My hope is that we can clarify and get other views on what happened for example
    Pusan is at the very tip of South Eastern South Korea. Although the North Koreans did push both the US and South Korean forces there in August-September 1950 the Chinese didn’t get in until October, and they never pushed that far south.

    The Battle of Triangle Hill aka Shanggangling Mountain happens in the Iron Triangle around Pyongyang in October-November 1952. The war would still rage until late July 1953.
    But my hope is that some of our members can give the Chinese perspective perhaps even learn what the North Koreans claim happened. For example the claim of the Sinking of the USS Baltimore CA68 on July 2nd 1950 has long been claimed by the North Koreans however that ship wouldn’t have been in service at the time and was decommissioned in 1956.
     
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  7. Jura
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    Jura General

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    you reminded me of the time when, after I had arrived to the US, I was still on European time which meant to wake up at around 2 am local time (= around 8 am in Europe), trying to fall asleep for like one hour (no way), and then watching Civil War Journal on the History Channel, it ran until 5 am when the local Dunkin' Donuts joint opened, LOL now
     
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  8. discspinner
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    discspinner New Member
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    China's performance in the Korean war earned the respect and admiration of Americans to the point that in 1971 Nixon and Kissinger were compelled to seek out China as a strong and capable ally against the Soviet Union, which directly lead to the normalization of relations and the reform and opening up of China's economy in 1978, without which the China of today would not exist.
     
  9. Hendrik_2000
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    Hendrik_2000 Brigadier

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    I am not denying that the normalization and opening up of western market speed up the economic development of China . But by 1974 China has won the political battle and defeated the economic embargo of the west
    I still remember vividly in 1971 China won back the seat in the UN with the help of African countries and since then Britain, France and Australia resume diplomatic relation with China .

    So it is not a favor from the US but recognizing the fact on the ground with added incentive to prod China in helping with Vietnam war and Soviet Union
    US role in China economic development come very late The earlier investor and still until today the biggest investor in China is overseas Chinese from SEA .Even today Singapore is the biggest investor in China 4 years in the row

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_and_the_United_Nations
    The United Kingdom, France, and other U.S. allies individually shifted their recognitions of China to the PRC and Albania brought annual votes to replace the ROC with the PRC, but these were defeated since—after General Assembly Resolution 1668—a change in recognition required a two-thirds vote.

    Amid the Sino-Soviet split and Vietnam War, U.S. President Richard Nixon entered into negotiations with Communist Chairman Mao, initially through a secret 1971 trip undertaken by Henry Kissinger to visit Zhou Enlai. On 25 October 1971, Albania's motion to recognize the People's Republic of China as the sole legal China was passed as General Assembly Resolution 2758. It was supported by most of the communist states (including the Soviet Union) and non-aligned countries (such as India), but also by some U.S. allies such as the United Kingdom and France. After the PRC was seated on 15 November 1971, Nixon then.

    @Gatekeeper
    The biggest winner of Korean war is actually Japan. Korean war demand responsible for rebuilding and reviving Japanese industries and economy after the war by re supplying the US army with war material and other necessities.

    And contrary to western media China did not started the war Soviet Union and Kim Il sung did But China is blackmailed by the Soviet to take the brunt of the war by tying the economic assistance which China desperately need with Korean war .China did warned the US repeatedly thru the office of India and Pakistan that she will entered the war if the Mc Arthur cross the line at Yalu river but the US doesn't heed the warning
    See China didn't do anything when US army cross the 38th parallel line. Coupled with Chiang Kai Shek plan to invade China it left China with no alternative but to enter the war.

    @ Terrain I google the map and by entering the coordinate I found Sanggangling is close to the border
    https://www.google.com/maps/place/38%C2%B019'44.0%22N+127%C2%B029'07.0%22E/@38.3343639,127.449
    9312,12.87z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d38.3288889!4d127.4852778


    Close to city Pyonggang and not Pyongyang And I am correct it did contribute to ending the war and time scale is 1952
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Triangle_Hill
    Meanwhile, the high UN casualties forced Clark to suspend any upcoming offensive operations involving more than one battalion, effectively preventing any major UN offensives for the rest of the war.[89][90] Clark and US President Harry S. Truman later confided that the battle was a serious blow to the UN morale.[87] As for the ROK, the modest UN gain on Sniper Ridge had convinced them that they were now capable of conducting independent offensive operations,[1] even though the American advisers were less than impressed with their performance during the course of the battle.[87]
     
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  10. solarz
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    solarz Brigadier

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    The Korean War has had far reaching consequences and is a fitting illustration of the Law of Unintended Consequences.

    First and foremost, the start of the Korean War saved the Republic of China from annihilation. The US had previously decided to abandon the Jiang regime, only to change its mind after the Korean War began. This would lead to the segregation of Taiwan from Mainland China, a state that continues to exist today, and remains a source of nuclear flash point.

    Second, as we know, the Korean War cemented the separation of North and South Korea, and nuclear-armed North Korea today has become a source of anxiety for the US.

    Third, the Korean War led to the breakdown in Sino-Soviet relations. The demand for repayment of Korean War equipment supplied to China by the USSR and the withdrawal of Soviet support for China's industries was one of the causes that led to the Great Leap Forward and the subsequent three-year famine of 1958 to 1961. The catastrophe of the GLF directly led to the sidelining of Mao, which in turn led to the Cultural Revolution, effectively shaping an entire generation of Chinese people.

    Fourth, the Korean War was a harsh lesson for the PLA. The initial phase of the PVA intervention was a resounding success, resulting in the routing of UN forces from the Yalu river all the way down to Seoul. However, past the 38th parallel, PVA weaknesses in logistics became prominent, and changes in US tactics to exploit those weaknesses resulted in heavy casualties for the PVA. When the PLA fought India and Vietnam in subsequent conflicts, China would unilaterally declare an end to fighting after achieving a strategic advantage. This allowed China to gain substantial leverage in subsequent diplomatic negotiations, resulting in lasting peace along the India and Vietnamese borders.

    Fifth, the USSR, which seemed like the big winner shortly after the War, ultimately ended up being the big loser. Stalin's machinations and subsequent demands from Kruschev angered the Chinese leadership, and led to rapprochement with the US. Cooperation and trade between China and the West resulted in wealth for both sides, and contributed to the collapse of the Soviet Union.
     
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