JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 News, Discussion & Media

Discussion in 'Air Force' started by crazyinsane105, Sep 22, 2005.

  1. tphuang
    Offline

    tphuang Brigadier
    Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2005
    Messages:
    7,551
    Likes Received:
    1,694
    Re: JF-17: New Pics

    let me try to translate the article from the top.
    this was hard work!

    Hope this works well.

    JF-17 is currently China's only advanced fighter

    developed in open. Many people use it to understand

    China's fighter development direction. The DSI

    change that started in June of 2004 caused many

    surprises, so did the Leading edge extension in

    September. Since 2006, JF-17 has been viewed even

    more when President Musharraf visited. CCTV showed

    brand new JF-17 04 with a previously unseen modern

    glass cockpit. This cockpit represent ourcountry's

    avionics level has reached world class. JF-17

    showed 1 HUD and 2 MFD in the cockpit in previous

    displays. There were analog controls in the middle.

    The look was similar to F-16a/b. In 2004, zhuhai

    airshow showed a cockpit with 1 HUD and 3 MFDs. All

    the analog meters on the cockpit got replaced by

    digital control. Cockpit underwent a total digital

    information redesign. However, the model does not

    give people the good feeling that a real thing

    would.

    Everyone knows that JF-17 is a China/Pakistan

    combined venture. JF-17's main aim is to equip PAF.

    In south Asian crisis, Pakistan receive American

    embargo. It not only failed to receive 79 F-16s it

    order, but also could not get spare parts to F-16.

    As a result, it had to order 80 F-7PG and some

    squadrons even got F-16s replaced by F-7PG. This is

    rarely seen in military aviation. JF-17's

    development is extremely urgent. Pakistan believes

    that JF-17's capability and price should be lower

    than F-16C/D, but capability should be higher than

    F-16A/B. Due to the anti-terrorism planning, PAF's

    importance got changed. America not only agreed to

    sell F-16, but also some advanced F-16s that it

    could not get before. Due to this pressure, JF-17's

    requirement got increased. It needs to be more

    advanced than F-16, that's why you see the whole

    change in 04.

    The new cockpit's electronic system showed JF-17's

    modified capability. The new cockpit is very

    compact and functional position is positioned well

    and shows very mature system. 1 HUD is the main

    fighter display. This HUD has 24 degree in sight.

    It can add infrared signal? and supply flying,

    navigation, liftoff and landing info, it can also

    display target details and shooting detail. It can

    also communicate, navigate using the GUI There is a

    camera located above the HUD. It records HUD and

    external sights. HUD is the most important

    instrument in flight. Integrated informational

    level is dependent on this. Russia added some nice

    looking displays for su-30, but their display

    information is simple and information is spread.

    So, it did not really integrate the information.

    The JF-17 HUD uses a lot of digital processing and

    information integration information. For example,

    radar information, fight command info. HUD's

    controller has the ability to change display.

    Controller can also control all of the plane's

    dipslay. 3 MFDs are below the HUD. It is multi-

    colour LCD display. The dimension of the MFD is

    20.3cmx30.6cm (note: this works out to be 8 x 12

    inch, but a more realistic estimation is 6.25x8.25).

    The area is 4 times the previous area. The display

    brightness and contrast can be automatically

    adjusted. It also allows handle control. Each MFD

    displays important function. Display info can be

    changed. The control on the side acts as parameter

    design. Very often, left side shows weapon

    situation and numbers. Right side displays radar

    and combat info. The center shows some less

    important info, because it requires the pilot to

    lower his/her head. Like navigational info and map

    and so so. All the MFD can change to other info

    like radar, cockpit camera? and infrared picture and

    such. cockpit also allows night navigation and

    pilots can use night goggles to fly.

    04 uses a hotas controller? pilot can keep hands on

    controller and still control the fighter's sensor

    mode, weapon and display. This greatly reduces a

    pilots movement and makes operation much easier.

    The controller does not affect the position in

    combat? Basically, allows pilots to keep the hand

    on the controller in combat. The earlier western

    4th generation fighters like F-16A/B only had

    limited functions on the controller. JF-17 hotas

    uses advanced western design like F-16C/d, F-18C/D

    and Mirage2K5's newest model for design. Also, the

    system has different controls dependent on the hand

    size, length and finger size and length of the user.

    Basically, uses customizable controller. Allows a

    lot of activities done with limited energy.

    04 uses all digital integrated electronic display.

    all computers/electronics uses 2 STD-MTL-1553B

    databus combined, curren info shared repository and

    shared data repository. According to demand, it

    also divides into weapons w/commands, radar, EW,

    communication, electronic control, payload control,

    FBW and so on. This avionics system's core lies in 2

    advanced weapons controlling computer. these two

    computers do something... Each computer controls 1

    double thick 1553B databus? This computer uses new

    structure system. It uses main controller rights to

    receive and process each system's info. At the same

    time, receive pilot's command. Uses command to

    control other systems. It's current world's most

    advanced input computer and main line integration

    web. Very few new fighters has this kind of complex

    and high speed system like typhoon, rafale and F-16

    E/F. This system uses battle flight software

    package to exercise control and allows using

    development of more detailed software package to

    improve fighter capability and work load. Weapon

    controlling computer directly connects to MFD's

    structure. It uses information from each system to

    display on the 1 HUD and 3MFDs. Radar system is

    another important part of JF-17. It's also a major

    commercial battle area. Pakistan used a lot of

    Grifo radar in the past on F-7s. JF-17 also was

    about to use this. Italy also pitted Grifo-S2000

    (should be S7) in competition. China also provided

    a radar for customers. Domestic radar has good

    support for China's weapon systems and missiles.

    The current multimode PD radar has BVR capability,

    WVR capability and attack land and sea mode and

    other modes. Also has look down and shoot down

    capability even under disruptive environments below.

    You can Track 10 targets from 40 scanned targets

    and handle 2 concurrent BVR engagement. The range

    vs 3 m^2 targets is larger than 75KM and look down

    is larger than 45 KM. It is larger than 135 KM vs

    sea targets.

    04's GPS navigation system replaced the traditional navigation system, greatly improved precision and reduced preparation time. Talks about GPs capability after this and how American military controls it. It also has other wireless navigation but not as precise as GPS.

    JF-17's EW suite is very complex. It combines radar warning receiver and missile proximity receiver to form surveillence system and combined with ECM work. JF-17 uses uses something to diagnose RWR. It can receive a lot of information like fighter radar, missile seeker, A2S guidance radar and provides within 1.5 degree news. RAR has about 100+ radar info repository. It uses measured info to compare. detect the threatening origin and correct (radar type or fighter type?) and warning level. This repository can improve to 300. It can allow reprogramming, receive wartime newly discovered radar signal. 04's improved tail (backside" contains a missile proximity receiver. There will probably be two more put on the fighter for 360 degree coverage. It uses infrared and purple dual band imagine device. It has a purple red window? It can sense missile's rocket engine spoke from 20 KM in. It can correctly predict missile's location, trail and such. It can even estimate engagement time. It can be expanded to a fighter/missile recognition system. It can also provide some infrared imaging, communicate with RWR and hopefully can develop passive signal detection technology.

    04's EW suite also has a ECM pod. It and the ECM on the tail provide joint work. ECM current uses traidtional infrared something? modern missile's countermeasure to this is getting stronger each day. To let this simple and cheap ECM achieve high efficiency shows system's level, RWR, MPR and such. This system is only equipped by rafale and F-22. F-18E/F and F-16E/F needs upgrade to have this. 04 should also have ECM inside of fighter. It uses modern ECM technology and uses precise tracking system. Can achieve the affect of large ECM machine with small equipment. This ECM is most modern active guided AAM. It can also counter gither radar lock and scan. It's mainly for PAF's enemy IAF's R-77 missiles.

    To acommodate modern web of combat. 04 is equipped with 2 ECM vs radar tower and something else. It can receive datalink info from ground of AWACS. Other equippments include big air computer? and advanced digital processing signal and such. The electronic system stores everything, all the bugs and such. It can use computer to process this. Reduces ground maintenance.

    It uses western standard MIL-STD-1760 to allow for integration of western weapons and can also get hooked on with Russian weapons. It will probably uses PL-9C, SD-10, PL-11, AIM-9L/M and AIM-7F. It also good use LGBs and possible A2G missile integration.
     
  2. pshamim
    Offline

    pshamim New Member
    VIP Professional

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2006
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: JF-17: New Pics

    TP, That is a great job. You have put in your valueable time and hard work to bring this information to us. Thanks
     
  3. FreeAsia2000
    Offline

    FreeAsia2000 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    648
    Likes Received:
    1
    Re: JF-17: New Pics

    fantastic post dude.

    well done ! :)
     
  4. Indianfighter
    Offline

    Indianfighter Junior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    504
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: JF-17: New Pics

    The work done by tphuang is laudable and useful.

    What has surprised me is that China has released such an unusually high amount of detail about the JF-17, which I almost never get to see (in the English media atleast).
    The details of most of Chinese defence projects are always sketchy and kept secretive by China.

    All this is an indication that :

    a] China is serious about the marketing potential of the FC-1, and hence it has deliberately released so much detail about the FC-1.
    It has the potential to be the F-16 of many third-world nations.

    b] The JF-17 is equivalent to a Block 52 F-16 (except in max. speed). The avionics package is equivalent to any modern 4th generation fighter.
    The argument (especially by Pakistan), that the JF-17 is a "medium-tech" 3.5 gen aircraft is completely negated.
    The PAF is likely to purchase only JF-17 as its frontline, equivalent but cheaper fighter, instead of the Block 52 F-16.

    c] China wants to dissipate US fears that China is engaged in a secretive military build-up. Such a public display (as in western nations) is likely to be meant to shed the "covert and secretive" charge.

    This amount of detail given for the JF-17 probably surpasses even that of the available detail for the...ahhem...cough....cough....L**.
     
    #134 Indianfighter, Apr 11, 2006
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2006
  5. vincelee
    Offline

    vincelee Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2005
    Messages:
    548
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: JF-17: New Pics

    FC-1 does not even approach the air to ground capability of the F-16 BLK50.

    Also, "purple red" in T's post should be translated as ultraviolet.

    on thing that's interesting is the device used to detect missile plumes, is it using a focal plane array?
     
  6. tphuang
    Offline

    tphuang Brigadier
    Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2005
    Messages:
    7,551
    Likes Received:
    1,694
    Re: JF-17: New Pics

    that's what it was, darn! ultraviolet, how come i forget? ultrapurple, stupid me! A couple of more things:
    1. a lot of places I wrote infrared signal for detector, I meant FLIR. Although I'm not sure if it really meant FLIR or IRST. The guy who wrote the article isn't the most technical person around.
    2. the radar specs - I think that's the specs set by the PAF government. It's not necessarily the actual specs of KLJ-10. For example, I'm pretty sure KLJ-10 can do 4 concurrent engagements
    3. A lot of its boasting on the EW suite doesn't make sense to me at least, since it seems to be saying its traditional, but then it's at F-22/Rafale level.
    4. Also, any idea what my translation of missile poximity receiver is?
     
  7. FreeAsia2000
    Offline

    FreeAsia2000 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    648
    Likes Received:
    1
    Re: JF-17: New Pics


    Well the last one probably better term is Missile Proximity warning sensor
     
  8. Indianfighter
    Offline

    Indianfighter Junior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    504
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: JF-17: New Pics

    It is likely to be an IRST, since it is mentioned that it can track and trail a missile, and guessing of the missile/aircraft maybe an enhancement in the future.
    But I did not understand why would it "communicate" with the RWR and what would be "passive signal detection"
    (since IRST normally employs this feature).

    As of now, PAF is discussing the purchase of Selex AESA radars for the JF-17. It is unlikely that the Chinese radar shall be chosen if the Selex radar is made available.
     
  9. SABRE
    Offline

    SABRE Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: JF-17: New Pics

    Great work TP. This danm sure will prove to ppl that JF-17 that the main concept of JF-17 is to have a fighter Superior or equal to MiG-29, Mirage2000-5, F-16 BLK-40 etc.

    You could be correct here.

     
  10. tphuang
    Offline

    tphuang Brigadier
    Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2005
    Messages:
    7,551
    Likes Received:
    1,694
    Re: JF-17: New Pics

    if it was translated directly to english, it's actually closer to FLIR, but I guess the person who wrote this seemed to be more a marketting person, so the author might not know the difference between the two. Logically, it should be talking about IRST, since IRST is reportedly equipped on JF-17 from a previous JDW article.

    As for Selex AESA radar, it's just premature talk. Until there is formal announcement made, I still stick to the last announcement that the first 50 are using Chinese radar+avionics.

    Actually, if someone can translate the part on the EW suite on why JF-17's ECM is good, it would be appreciated. That part seems to be very vague and doesn't proof anything.

    Also, the missile sensor is actually called missile approach warner by the typhoon website. The article also didn't state that it has a laser warning receiver.
     
Loading...

Share This Page