JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[Biscuits]

If they want to use money, I won’t deny the Gripen is very good, for it’s price. It’s almost a J-10C or “F-21” and the cheaper variants only cost as much as a maxed out JF-17...

For a trainer through, the L-15 has the most fair price while being a purpose built trainer.

 

[Brumby]

There is something called a bus, mil std 1553 or mil std 1760 or something, that the radar maker and the weapons maker only needs to conform to, in order to make their systems work with each other without giving away secrets to each other. Chinese radar that meets 1553 or 1760 bus spec can in theory, use US weapons that meet these standards, and vice versa. Same with European, Russian, Scandinavian and Israeli systems.

If you are one of those into computer engineering, you would know what this "bus" means. I am not referring to the transportation kind. Bus as in...what is the most popular bus being used around... USB of course.

That "in theory" is simply not sound. Mil std 1760 is just a common protocol standard for interface between the weapons system and the avionics. The problem is with the required data set exchanges needed between the weapons and the planes's system and that would include the sensors, stores management, combat system, navigation systems et al. They are basically predominantly Chinese on the JF-17 to my knowledge. The US in their end user agreement with Malaysia would likely prohibit any integration of their missiles with non US system. I doubt the Chinese would open up their systems to the US as any integration would require US technical assistance. Malaysia's inventory of weapons are either US or Russian. Adding Chinese would increase the logistical tail and that would be a negative.

The positive going for China is that Malaysia wants to do a barter trade as payment through its palm oil and China is open to it but so is India which is a major importer of it. .

 

[Biscuits]

There is something called a bus, mil std 1553 or mil std 1760 or something, that the radar maker and the weapons maker only needs to conform to, in order to make their systems work with each other without giving away secrets to each other. Chinese radar that meets 1553 or 1760 bus spec can in theory, use US weapons that meet these standards, and vice versa. Same with European, Russian, Scandinavian and Israeli systems.

If you are one of those into computer engineering, you would know what this "bus" means. I am not referring to the transportation kind. Bus as in...what is the most popular bus being used around... USB of course.

It would likely not be ok with how the PLA conducts it’s military sales to hook up a random missile to the radar, especially not an American one as there are valid spying concerns.

 

[timepass]

deleted

 

[Xizor]

TTNT link - a rockwell collins product ...

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I think China's CETC has plenty of researchers looking it up,analyzing these "high bandwidth Link 16 compatible" data link.

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The above paper was published in 2011. CETC is also looking into GiG3.0 (for net centric warfare ...?)

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This is also nearly a decade old study. (2011)

I don't have any access to these. Maybe someone with Chinese skills can look up more documents produced by CETC and brochures in Airshows and Technology Fairs ?

 

[Brumby]

TTNT link - a rockwell collins product ...

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I think China's CETC has plenty of researchers looking it up,analyzing these "high bandwidth Link 16 compatible" data link.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The above paper was published in 2011. CETC is also looking into GiG3.0 (for net centric warfare ...?)

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

This is also nearly a decade old study. (2011)

I don't have any access to these. Maybe someone with Chinese skills can look up more documents produced by CETC and brochures in Airshows and Technology Fairs ?

This subject is OT and I will limit my comments.

TTNT and Link 16 are different waveforms but are inter-operable. TTNT provides greater bandwidth, larger throughput and very low latency as opposed to Link 16. As such, Link 16 is not suitable for CEC unlike TTNT.

If you wish to understand what the Chinese have you need to first establish the communications technical architecture in which its Link 16 "like" platform is build upon. It is not what the research says but what is adopted because reality always dictate some form of cost vs capability trade off.

 

[Quickie]

That "in theory" is simply not sound. Mil std 1760 is just a common protocol standard for interface between the weapons system and the avionics. The problem is with the required data set exchanges needed between the weapons and the planes's system and that would include the sensors, stores management, combat system, navigation systems et al. They are basically predominantly Chinese on the JF-17 to my knowledge. The US in their end user agreement with Malaysia would likely prohibit any integration of their missiles with non US system. I doubt the Chinese would open up their systems to the US as any integration would require US technical assistance. Malaysia's inventory of weapons are either US or Russian. Adding Chinese would increase the logistical tail and that would be a negative.

The positive going for China is that Malaysia wants to do a barter trade as payment through its palm oil and China is open to it but so is India which is a major importer of it. .

More like the other way round. The U.S. would need to open up the operating system of the particular U.S. weapon that is to be integrated to be the JF-17. More specifically, they would need to open up the weapon's communication protocol for initializing, targeting and firing of the weapon.

 

[Tam]

Multiple candidates for Block III JF-17 AESA radar. Long series of tweets by @mssn65.

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パキスタンのJF-17 BlockⅢのAESAレーダーの候補となっている二種類のレーダー

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>南京14所が開発したKLJ-7Aは、高性能液冷レーダー >J-20のレーダーの開発経験をもとに、輸出向けの安い高性能なASEAレーダーを開発 (続く)
Translated from Japanese by
Pakistan's JF-17 Block Ⅲ Types of radar that are candidates for AESA radar

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> KLJ-7A developed by 14 Nanjing locations is a high-performance liquid-cooled radar > Based on J-20 radar development experience, developed low-cost, high-performance ASEA radar for export (continued)

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> KLJ-7Aはレーダーアンテナを可動させることで捜索範囲を拡大（なお、KLJ-7Aには前者のほかに、固定式の正面アレイと側面アレイ二基により視界を拡大するもう一つの方法が用意されている） >ライバルの607所が開発したLKF-601RAESAレーダー（LKF-601Eの名称も。Eは輸出型の略称？） は空冷レーダー
Translated from Japanese by
> The KLJ-7A expands the search range by moving the radar antenna. (In addition to the former, the KLJ-7A has another method for expanding the field of view by using a fixed front array and two side arrays. ing) > The LKF-601RAESA radar (also known as LKF-601E, where E is an abbreviation for export type) developed by 607 competitors is an air-cooled radar

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>冷却方法を比較すると、高い効率で長時間の作動には液冷式が有利。空冷式は、冷却効率と連続作動時間の面でどうしても液冷式に対して不利になる。世界のAESAレーダーの大半が液冷式を採用しているのはこれが原因
Translated from Japanese by
> When cooling methods are compared, liquid cooling is advantageous for long-term operation with high efficiency. The air cooling method is inevitably disadvantageous to the liquid cooling method in terms of cooling efficiency and continuous operation time. This is why most of the world's AESA radars use liquid cooling

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>空冷式AESAレーダーになれば、冷却系統を強化する必要がないので改修の手間はかなり少なく抑えることが出来る > LKF-601R は固定式アレイ一基のためKLJ-7Aよりも捜索範囲が限定される（正面120度の円錐形）のも欠点であるがこれも可動部を減らし構造を簡単にするという点では有利。
Translated from Japanese by
> If it becomes an air-cooled AESA radar, it is not necessary to reinforce the cooling system, so it is possible to reduce the labor of renovation considerably. > LKF-601R has a fixed array, so the search range is more limited than KLJ-7A (conical shape with 120 degrees in front). advantageous.




Owari. it ends here.

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> 607所のコンセプトは性能最優先ではなく、アップグレード改修に要する手間や費用を節約するという点に重点が置かれている。これは特に既存のレーダーを換装する際にメリットとなると判断している (終わり)
Translated from Japanese by
> The concept of the 607 is not a performance priority, but is focused on saving effort and costs for upgrades. We have determined that this will be an advantage especially when replacing existing radar (end)

 

[timepass]

How is This For Comparison.....

 

[Deino]

How is This For Comparison.....

Pardon ... for what?