JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

Discussion in 'Air Force' started by johnqh, Jun 21, 2011.

  1. Inst
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    Inst Senior Member

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    Authoritatively speaking, the standard line is:

    -J-10 developed from Chinese research into canard fighters during the Cultural Revolution. None of these fighters ever left the drawing board or prototype stage.
    -J-10 received considerable Israeli input, mainly in the FCS design, as the Chinese had no domestically-built FBW fighters.

    More entertainingly, if people bring up the J-10 as a Lavi knock-off, you're better off trying to talk them into thinking the J-10 is a Eurofighter knock-off instead and having brave, original arguments over that subject.
     
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  2. ougoah
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    ougoah Senior Member
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    Nope. I'm only interested in truth so why would I say J-10 is a Typhoon knock off? Stop flaming already toxic discussions. J-10 in my opinion and from what I've read online DOES take much from Lavi and J-10A PAID for Israeli and/or Russian assistance in FBW. But China had many teams working on FBW on many platforms back then. China can work out FBW alone like Russia like the US like Israel etc. It's possible to create something from nothing through research, hard work, and proper funding. Logically one cannot conclude that since Israel and/or Russia POSSIBLY assisted with one fighter's FBW, that they were solely responsible for it and China would NEVER have managed themselves. This is undeniable logic. Make one's own conclusions after that. No doubt it could have helped the J-10A plenty but that's now back in the 80s and not worth discussing anymore.

    Exactly how much J-10A had "help" and "influence" everyone disagrees with between having zero influence to completely copied. The truth lies somewhere in between and that is a large range to speculate on thus the animosity on this topic.

    This is getting really off topic but I think your post here after Deino's warning does deserve a response especially when you might be looking for one since you quoted me. It isn't a typhoon copy and saying that just to have a brave original argument does not help anyone in any way. On the Lavi discussion, I think at least for this forum, all the information and speculations have already been discussed to death. Therefore let's leave people up to their own unfounded or well reasoned opinions without further getting off-topic about something with no bearing on today's programs. At one point in history Russia didn't have a fission weapon until certain spy programs helped them develop their first nuclear weapon. Now they mastered many nuclear technologies, detonated the highest yield fusion weapon ever detonated on Earth, and have the highest or second highest stockpile. And what? So what about the past? It's been archived in history and in people's minds at least those who matter. Move on.

    Deino please delete both INST's post and mine if you see fit.
     
    #4602 ougoah, Oct 12, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
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  3. Inst
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    Inst Senior Member

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    I made that post before I saw Deino's do not discuss post.

    On the Eurofighter line, the reason people dislike Fenqing is because they have no sense of humor and get overly defensive. Trolling trolls is a humorous modification of the J-10 is Lavi troll, and is more entertaining than simply being defensive.

    That's my last two cents on this subject.
     
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  4. secretprojects
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    secretprojects New Member
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    To answer my own question....

     

    Attached Files:

  5. secretprojects
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    secretprojects New Member
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    1 Bump inlet design principle
    Bump inlet is based on cone flow theory [5-7], using multiplication Wave machine principle design. Convert a cone into an equivalent Compressing the surface, the resulting flow field is still a conical flow, a cone shock Attached to the edge of the compressed surface (see Figure 3). Due to the cone flow itself Characteristics, there are normal and horizontal on the compressed surface of the Bump inlet To the pressure gradient, the combined effect of the two is equivalent to the presence of a passive surface Layer blowing device that blows most of the fuselage cover layer out of the intake port. In addition, there is no boundary layer on the Bump inlet.
    Good performance can also be obtained by means of blowing and blowing/puffing measures.
    Figure 3 Buff inlet "passing wave" principle configuration
    2 Xiaolong Aircraft Bump Inlet Design Features
    The Bump inlet design points are: Maximum Mach number Ma=1. 7, pre-compression drum package equivalent compression half cone angle is 20 °, height H = 11 km and determine the capture area; in Ma = 0.8 to 1.2
    Within the circumference, the throat area is determined according to the flow rate at the maximum state of the engine. The Mach number of the throat is controlled at 0. 6~0. 7; 04 aircraft inner tube The road is also different from the 01 / 03 frame, for the station 6 146 mm The front compression body, lip cover and inner pipe profile were redesigned;
    After the station is 6 146 mm, it is consistent with the original, so that The structural changes are small.
    2.1 Integrated design of intake port and front fuselage
    In order to reduce the resistance of the front fuselage and the thickness of the boundary layer, the front machine The body has been modified and the fuselage layer is removed. The inclined plane is changed to the curved surface (see Figure 4), and the bulge profile is combined with the fuselage profile. Combined, the front fuselage shape is smoother.
    Figure 4 Comparison of front fuselage profile changes
    2. 2 lip design of the inlet
    Unlike the straight lip design of the conventional air intake, Bump The lip of the airway is designed in a forward swept form with the lip adjacent to the fuselage Divided into peaks and valleys, which allows most of the boundary layer to be removed from the valley. The shape is shown in Figure 2(c).
    2. 3 further exclusion design of the surface layer on the compression drum pack
    In order to better eliminate the boundary layer on the compression bulge, reduce the super Shock/surface interference at the speed of sound, compression bulge profile a method of combining a lateral pressure gradient design with a suction hole method, The suction holes are evenly distributed in the forward swept range of the lips, staggered.
    2. 4 no venting door design
    Because the Bump inlet uses a cone-shaped flow-passing design, the lip Three measures of mouth plucking and bulging and punching, and the surge of the intake port The degree is greatly increased, so there is no need to add a venting system.
    3 Bump inlet flow characteristics
    Drum symmetry plane pressure coefficient map calculated from CFD (see Figure 5) It can be seen that: the first shock compression shape of the Bump inlet The formula is progressive compression, the shock loss is small, and the total pressure is restored. Explicit cone flow characteristics; end shock angle and lip sweep angle To, and close to the lip, the wave is subsonic, should be a strong solution to the oblique shock.
    Figure 5 Ma = 1. 7 inlet wave system structure (CFD calculation results)
    Can be seen from the surface pressure distribution map of the bulge (see figure 6), the pressure distribution on the bulge is: high intermediate pressure, pressure on both sides Low, the fuselage boundary layer is removed by the pressure gradient on the surface of the bulge.
    4 Wind tunnel test analysis
    High and low speed wind tunnels were carried out on the Bump inlet of the Xiaolong aircraft Test, test Ma range 0 to 1. 8, test model in the wind tunnel The photo is shown in Figure 7.
    Bump inlet total pressure recovery coefficient and comprehensive distortion index
    A comparison with the 01 / 03 swash plate inlet is shown in Figure 8. From the picture It can be seen that the total pressure recovery coefficient of the Bump inlet is superior to the supersonic speed section.
    Figure 6 Ma = 1. 7 compression drum surface pressure distribution (CFD calculation results)
    Figure 7 Bump inlet in high speed wind tunnel test
    Figure 8 Inlet performance changes with flight Ma

    Inclined plate inlet, e increased from 0. 02 to 0. 04, its comprehensive distortion index At the same level as the swash plate inlet, much lower than the engine distortion Limit requirements.
    Figure 9 shows the Bump inlet oil flow test results, from the figure It can be seen that most of the fuselage boundary layer is discharged outside the outlet.
    Figure 9 Bump inlet oil flow diagram
    5 Conclusion

    The design of the Bump inlet of the Xiaolong aircraft has reached the expected level. Purpose, the results of the wind tunnel test show: the performance of the Bump inlet Excellent, the total pressure of the inlet is restored high, compared with the swash plate inlet, e High 0. 02~ 0. 04; low comprehensive distortion index, good matching performance Well, work is stable and meets the requirements of aircraft and engines.
    references:
    [1 ] Seddon J. Intake aerodynamics [ R ]. AIAA Education Series, 1985.
    [2] Mcfarlan J D III . Lockheed Ma rtin’ s joint strike
    Fighter diverterless superso nicinlet [ M ]. National Press Club, 2000.
    [3] Yang Yingkai, Li Yuxi. A JSF X-35 [J]. International aviation,
    2001(8): 13-15.
    [4 ] Hehs E. JSF diverterless supersonic inlet [ EB/OL ]. http: //www .codeonemagazine.com/archives/2000/Articles/july-00/divertless-1.html.
    [5 ] Roe P L. Theory of waverider[C]//AGARD-LS-42, 1972: 1-17.
    [6 ] Yang Yingkai. The research of bump inlet design [C] // Russian-Chinese Scientific Conference, 2003: 9-12.
    [7] Liang Dewang, Li Bo. Anti-design of the air inlet without a passage and the surface layer removal machine Analysis [J]. Acta Aeronautica Sinica, 2005, 26(3): 286-289.
     
  6. timepass
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    timepass Brigadier

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    Jamming Pod for Thunder .... (KG - 600)

    [​IMG]

    Recently JF-17 Thunder is seen with KG-600 Jamming POD. Thunder with KG-600 is big milestone for PAF. It just not counter nieghbours tech but also a major boost in PAF fleet , still we had jamming capabilities and clear example is recent 27th February.

    It's quite interesting that Thunder is equipped with KG-600 which is equipped on Chinese mainstay Fighters like J-10Bs , Cs , Su-30MKk, J-16 and JH-7s which speaks of it's abilities and capabilities.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  7. defenceman
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    defenceman Junior Member
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    Hi any info about this POD
    Thank you

    this POD
     
  8. asif iqbal
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    asif iqbal Brigadier

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    Guys here are some exclusives

    Just got back from Pakistan

    My extended family lives right under the flight path of the PAC Kamra and I took to the roof with my phone and caught these photos

    A lot of people from the village work on the base and word on the street is that the manufacturing facility’s are totally off limits right now for even base personal

    Plenty of daily flying and also I was there for 12 days and they did night flying

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  9. timepass
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    timepass Brigadier

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  10. plawolf
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    plawolf Brigadier

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    Single seater so not a Su30. Looks like a J11A to me.
     
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