JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

Discussion in 'Air Force' started by johnqh, Jun 21, 2011.

  1. Brumby
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    Brumby Major

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    Do you any evidence that the "cobra" has ever been used in a real combat engagement? They are for airshows. Towed decoys was combat proven in Kosovo and is considered the most effective counter measure available. It is adopted in all US fighters. ALE-50 was first installed in the F-16 in 1999. The F-18 has the ALE-55 and the F-35 has the ALE-70.
     
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  2. schrage musik
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    schrage musik New Member
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    The JF-17 does have a very decent TWR of 1.09 (with 50% fuel and two 110kg missiles) compared to a Su-30MKI whose TWR under similar conditions comes out to be 1.19 (using, for the sake of comparision, the figs of 50% fuel and 2x110kg missiles for MKI as well)

    With a 100 kN WS-19 the JF-17's TWR jumps to 1.28 and with a 110 kN WS-19 (110 is the rumored target for this engine) its TWR could reach an incredible 1.40. With this engine there would be a significant margin for lengthening of the airframe or wing enlargement, which could lead to improvement in its wing loading and fuel fraction.

    The big issue with this fighter is its airframe that is not agile enough to compete with modern 4.5G fighters like the Eurocanards or the Su-30MKI. Another issue, although this one has a huge bearing on the unit cost of JF-17 is the lack of onboard systems like an 'advanced' EW suite, IRST, towed or expendable decoys, HMD, etc. The Block 3 may get a HMD and a better radar, but the other systems including towed decoys are not coming based on what we have heard.
     
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  3. asif iqbal
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    asif iqbal Brigadier

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    The only problem with this argument is that PAF has a limited budget and simply cannot afford 100 x J10 or Rafale or even F16

    There is still many Mirage and F7 squadrons to replace

    But they sure can afford 100 x JF17

    JF17 Block III will have ASEA this is a very powerful radar

    Huge equaliser and a game changer

    If they can build 50 of the B3 by 2022 and then keep the production open for another 1-2 years to add 24 more the finally JF17 tally will be close to 200 units not a bad run

    They should then seriously look to FC31 and use the block III platform to test new weapons and integration for FC31

    Have a custom built FC31 coming online by 2025 depending on the threats at that time which most likely be the Rafale in the R4 configuration
     
  4. Dolcevita
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    Dolcevita Senior Member

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    http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1150866.shtml

    China delivers first overhauled JF-17 fighter jet to Pakistan: report
    By Liu Xuanzun Source:Global Times Published: 2019/5/21 17:14:40

    [​IMG]
    A Pakistani JF-17 Thunder fighter jet arrives at a Chinese airport to take part in the "Shaheen VI" joint training exercises in China, September 7, 2017. Photo: Xinhua


    The close cooperation between China and Pakistan was highlighted by the recent delivery of the first overhauled JF-17 fighter jet under a project that experts said on Tuesday will benefit Pakistan's aviation industry.

    Changsha 5712 Aircraft Industry Co Ltd under the state-owned Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) reassembled the overhauled JF-17 and delivered it to its Pakistani client in March, China Aviation News revealed on Monday.

    This is also the first time AVIC has overhauled a made-for-export third generation fighter, or fourth generation according to another widely used standard, the report said.

    "The first [JF-17] overhaul marks an important milestone [in the JF-17 project]," Fu Qianshao, a Chinese air defense expert, told the Global Times on Tuesday.

    The first overhaul represents the trial-and-error phase of the project and provided experience in establishing standards for other JF-17 overhauls in the future, according to Fu.

    Jointly developed and manufactured by China and Pakistan, the single-engine multi-role light fighter jet JF-17 made its maiden flight in 2003. The first JF-17s were delivered to Pakistani clients in 2007 and a number of them were later commissioned by the Pakistan Air Force. After a decade of use, it was time for the first JF-17s to undergo overhauls, military analysts said.

    A contract was signed in 2016 and the first overhaul started in November 2017. The overhauled aircraft made its first test flight in October 2018, reports said.

    An overhaul includes major maintenance featuring repairs and replacement of old components including the airframe and engine, said Fu. While standard, regular maintenance could be done by the military, an overhaul usually needs to be conducted by a designated and more capable supplier due to higher complexity, he said.

    Such an overhaul can ensure flight safety after years of use, Fu said. It might also equip the aircraft with newer technologies that enhance its capability, or prolong the aircraft's lifespan, he said.

    The experienced overhaul team at AVIC used a reliability-oriented maintenance model, keeping the maintenance cycle short and costs low, the China Aviation News report said.

    Pakistan sent dozens of trainees to China, who had close communication and built deep friendships with Chinese engineers during the overhaul process, the report said.

    Fu said since procedures and standards for the overhaul have been established, future overhauls on other JF-17s could be done by Pakistani personnel.

    "Under the framework of China-Pakistan cooperation, Pakistan's aviation industry will continue to develop," Fu noted.

    A Block 3 variant of the JF-17 is under development, which is expected to be much more powerful than the previous two blocks thanks to a new China-developed active electronically scanned array radar, reports said.
     
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  5. kwaigonegin
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    kwaigonegin Colonel

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    Yes most do. However the maneuvers you gave are all WVR in which time the decoy would've been retraced back to it's housing long ago in the case of a dogfight. TDS are used usually in transit over potential hostile airspace or when the opfor is at a distance. Newer decoys in the wiorks like RCFM are one time use.. mening the cable is severed for a potential close in combat, missile avoidance or even landing.
    The driver is well trained enough to know if a mid or LR range AAM is going for his decoy or his own plane. Obviously if it's the latter he knows to cut and break.
     
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  6. asif iqbal
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    asif iqbal Brigadier

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    Nice!

    Hopefully soon PAC can start doing the overhauls and even upgrades
     
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  7. Mohsin77
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    Mohsin77 Junior Member
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    AFAIK decoy's are mostly employed by Wild Weasel squadrons. The Viper CJ uses it for SEAD/DEAD.
     
  8. kwaigonegin
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    kwaigonegin Colonel

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    I want to add also that the maneuvers you mentioned like kulbit, PC etc are all done at relatively low speeds and in reality more airshow stunts than having real world implications. Also as mentioned IF they are somehow still used for whatever suicidal reasons by the pilot in an actual fight, it wouldn't have mattered because it would be done at a very close range anyway like gun range almost. You don't do those maneuvers for LR missile avoidance. That's a 100% one way ticket to heaven.
     
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  9. timepass
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    timepass Brigadier

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  10. Deino
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    Deino Lieutenant General
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    And both are faked fan made photoshops.
     
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