JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[SinoSoldier]

There is a rumor from messiach, who posts at PDF and allegedly works at PAC/CAC, that the JF-17 Block III is nearing its testing phase.

 

[Deleted member 13312]

JF-17 will definitely be delivered with weapons packages included too. It's incompatible with the majority of other existing non-Chinese weapons.

That is a little sketchy, considering that Pakistan's original configuration for the fighter was for it to be able to fully utilize the entire ordnance of the PAF which includes numerous weapons of Western origins like the AIM-9L and Paveway PGMs. Also the idea of Chinese weapon systems being intentionaly incompatible runs in conflict with the general Chinese modus operandi of interoperationality and modular parts as a whole.

 

[Dizasta1]

And again, spare parts and missiles to cost just as much as another fighter in and on itself ? Considering the kind of threat environment Nigeria is look at, as well as the pathetic number of 3 units. It can be said that this deal more of a show trip than having actual military sense. And in the end Nigeria will have to send their JF-17s back to Russia for serious engine maintenance when they reach their half life in serivce.
Nor do the report gave any statement regarding where and how that money is being funneled into.

Well then, if we are to interpret this deal as you have. Then I must say, Pakistan has gotten the better part of the deal, as compared to Nigeria.

But since intellect trumps rumors, it is safe to say that what has been disclosed about this deal, is not in its entirety. Nor that Nigeria is just buying 3 Thunders and calling it a day. Every buyer wants the best deal possible and not every buyer has deep pockets like some countries.

In my view, Nigeria and Pakistan reached a deal, whereby an initial order of 3 Thunders allows the Nigerian air force to pace itself with new combat aircraft. And also (I strongly believe this Pakistan's doing), it permit Nigerian Air Force to establish a mini-MRO methodology. Start small and work your way up to a larger fleet. Ordering 50 JF-17 Thunders in one go, would create huge maintenance hurdles for Nigeria, who is operating these jets for the first time.

Unlike big military hardware vendors, and the large countries that offer a host of subsidies, support structures and so on. Pakistan is not one of them. And so, for us to assumingly be dismissive about the 3 jet deal. Is a bit disingenuous and short sighted.

Every country has its unique conditions. I recall the Russia - Indonesia deal for Sukhoi Flankers, whereby Indonesia paid for the jets with rubber, coffee, palm oil, tea, and other commodities. Dubbed as "Counter Trade," it was historically something which is unheard of in so far as military hardware procurement between international customers is concerned.

So to, it isn't too far fetched to think, that Nigeria has reached an agreement with Pakistan, whereby the initial order would be only for 3 jets. Yet the sum that Nigeria is paying Pakistan, exceeds the cost of 3 jets. Clearly there is more to this deal than we would think. It is only sensible to wait and see how it all plays out. As I am certain, Nigerian Air Force will establish a robust fleet a JF-17 Thunders, in the not too distant future.

 

[gelgoog]

That is a little sketchy, considering that Pakistan's original configuration for the fighter was for it to be able to fully utilize the entire ordnance of the PAF which includes numerous weapons of Western origins like the AIM-9L and Paveway PGMs. Also the idea of Chinese weapon systems being intentionaly incompatible runs in conflict with the general Chinese modus operandi of interoperationality and modular parts as a whole.

I am not sure they would be terribly unfamiliar with some of these systems. After all the PLAAF used to have clones of the Python-3 missile in service. I even remember at one point reading about China aircraft systems which had both NATO and Soviet system compatible wiring on the same rails. There is also the thaw period around the 1980s where China had a lot of access to NATO weapons technology in the Sabre II and Super 7 programs. The Sidewinder and the Paveway are hardly new weapon systems.

 

[ougoah]

That is a little sketchy, considering that Pakistan's original configuration for the fighter was for it to be able to fully utilize the entire ordnance of the PAF which includes numerous weapons of Western origins like the AIM-9L and Paveway PGMs. Also the idea of Chinese weapon systems being intentionaly incompatible runs in conflict with the general Chinese modus operandi of interoperationality and modular parts as a whole.

That's why I said "majority" because there are only a few western weapons available for uses on JF-17 that PAF has an inventory of. Weapons certification is extremely difficult and most weapons for JF-17 are indeed Chinese. It's not simply adding some code and bolting it on. Weapons packages including excess for inventory, training, support, maintenance, spare parts, all add up to about $60M each. Considering each aircraft for Pakistan is around $30M at least, it makes sense for export versions to be sold at a profit. Add on all the extras, it could amount to $20M or so more depending on the package they are getting, how many spare parts and what kinds of parts, and the types and numbers of ordinance they are buying.

Rafale and Gripen are just examples of how export price is much higher than listed price even if it's just the singular aircraft being sold which is NEVER the case. Made in India or not, Rafale export price is FAR more than the wiki listed $85M USD. Depends on the total package deal that India eventually gets. I believe this is also true for F-15K and F-15SG and pretty much every other deal including PLAAF Su-35. I really don't know what the big deal is with JF-17 being exported at ~%60M per plane package.

 

[timepass]

All weather Multirole Fighter Aircraft JF-17 Thunder performing extreme manuvers at

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held on 100th Aniversary of Polish Airforce . . .

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1791641064287356

 

[timepass]

Future Pakistan-Turkish defense cooperation likely to be incremental, for now...

Present co-operation “could well take the shape of a ‘Block-4’ JF-17 developed by Turkey and Pakistan” to be “considered for joint design and co-production”, after which “a stealth fighter would then be a logical next step.”

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[asif iqbal]

First time I have heard block 4

if B3 starts next year it should last until 2021 at which we will have

50 x B1
62 x B2
50 x B3

if we pause in 2022 for B4 and start in 2023 that should end in 2026

So a 5th generation should be sought about that time ~2025

Sino-Pak-Turk co-operation on JF17 Block 4 would not be out of the question we are already using ASELAN pods for B2 so its a good chance to get 3 nations together

Close ties should results fruits fro 5th generation project

 

[Deino]

IMO forget is. Highly unrealiable report based purely of someone's wishes.

 

[by78]

LKF601E AESA radar for the JF-17... This is apparently the world's first air-cooled AESA radar. The bad English on the information placard says it's "equipped with FC-1". FC-1 is of course another name for JF-17. The Chinese on the placard could mean the radar is 1)designed for JF-17, or 2)already equipped on JF-17, or 3)destined/chosen for JF-17.