Japanese ships disrupted Chinese naval exercises

solarz

solarz

Brigadier
Re: Japanese ships dusrupted chinese naval exercicies

jacksprat said:
An ADIZ does not represent a border either, it stands for "Air Defense Identification Zone" which means the country that established it will intercept unidentified aircraft approaching their borders in order to identify nationality, type of aircraft and intent if possible.

The nine dashed line represents a territorial claim on shoals, islands and rocks claimed by China as territorial possessions even though some of them are hundreds of miles from mainland China and in some case less that 100nm from a sovereign nation other than China.

My point is that they are 'artificial boundaries', each established for different reasons, which are political and military tripwires which generate certain reactions which in turn generate other reactions which increase regional instabilities and can and probably will lead to miscalculations by the opposing sides.

This results in nothing but endless provocations. I am not taking sides, but this consistent testing each other can result in nothing healthy for the regional stability or world peace in the whole. I just wish cooler heads would prevail. I served throughout most of the cold war in the USN, I sort of know that is like...blind man's bluff.....in hindsight it was kind of stupid....but very patriotic on all sides, so it seemed.....

Very respectfully submitted
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Of course they're "artificial boundaries". All national boundaries are artificial. Regional stability is maintained by a stable power structure, and in turn, instabilities are created by a shifting power structure. The Diaoyu Island dispute is only a symptom, not the cause.

Virtually all nations have territorial disputes. Even Canada has a dispute with Denmark over arctic islands. The distance of a disputed piece of land to a claimant nation's mainland is also irrelevant. Both Hawaii and Alaska are closer to some foreign country's mainland than it is to the US mainland. Ishigaki, Okinawa is closer to China that it is to Japan.
 
J

joshuatree

Captain
Re: Japanese ships dusrupted chinese naval exercicies

jacksprat said:
Does anyone else but me see a parallel between the Japanese ID zone (ADIZ) and China's claimed 'nine dashed line' in the South China Sea. Both are ludicrous and are/will contribute to high tensions and conflict.
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Except the difference is you don't read in the pro-Western media any concerns with Japan being a bully or causing instability with their ID zone. If one examines Vietnam's claims in the SCS or the Phiippine's claims in the SCS, they go far beyond what is afforded by their EEZs and can be considered just as ludricous which the media mostly turns a blind eye.

There is also a subtle difference, nine dashed line does have islands within that boundary and some islands can be argued that they provide their own EEZs which could cover portions of the area within the nine dashed line. International law stipulates airspace is limited at the same distance as territorial waters which is 12nm. Anything beyond that is international with no EEZ equivalent.
 
D

Dolcevita

Major
The bigger question now is given that the Chinese government had now clearly protested the recent obstruction. Will the political establshment allow their military to repeat the recent stunt? Only time will tell.
 
escobar

escobar

Brigadier
Re: Japanese ships dusrupted chinese naval exercicies

joshuatree said:
Except the difference is you don't read in the pro-Western media any concerns with Japan being a bully or causing instability with their ID zone. If one examines Vietnam's claims in the SCS or the Phiippine's claims in the SCS, they go far beyond what is afforded by their EEZs and can be considered just as ludricous which the media mostly turns a blind eye...
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No matter what china do or not, wester nations have already chosen their sides. It's up to china to manage with tact this kind of situation..
 
volleyballer

volleyballer

Banned Idiot
Re: Japanese ships dusrupted chinese naval exercicies

escobar said:
No matter what china do or not, wester nations have already chosen their sides. It's up to china to manage with tact this kind of situation..
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Territorial disputes can easily happen close or far from home, distance isn't a limiting factor nor a deciding factor on who has the rightful claim to an piece of territory. Falklands is an excellent example of this.

A slight OT here but the key objective in Chinese strategy is: "How to get the opponent to withdraw/surrender", instead of "How to overwhelm an opponent with brute force?" They always give you the option of backing down, in fact they want you to. Even during actual armed conflict.
 
N

no_name

Colonel
Re: Japanese ships dusrupted chinese naval exercicies

solarz said:
The distance of a disputed piece of land to a claimant nation's mainland is also irrelevant. Both Hawaii and Alaska are closer to some foreign country's mainland than it is to the US mainland. Ishigaki, Okinawa is closer to China that it is to Japan.
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Actually Falkland Islands comes to my mind.
 
solarz

solarz

Brigadier
Re: Japanese ships dusrupted chinese naval exercicies

volleyballer said:
A slight OT here but the key objective in Chinese strategy is: "How to get the opponent to withdraw/surrender", instead of "How to overwhelm an opponent with brute force?" They always give you the option of backing down, in fact they want you to. Even during actual armed conflict.
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Agreed. This is a classic principle in the Art of War. The best military is the military that wins wars without fighting.
 
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