Japanese have a plan to deal with Chinese new 094 nuclear sub

Kongo said:

How else would protecting itself against China be confrontational unless he believes China to be a hegemonic power intent on using its military to coerce or even invade its neighbours?

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Kongo, I think Violet believes it provocative if Japan is able to stop China from nuking it to hell on a whim. Because, of course, China has a right to dish out whatever military force it likes to whoever it so chooses.

Regarding the intellectual level there is nothing wrong with US neoconservative thinking, I really appreciate Leo Srauss and his works and recommend that chinese people whether civilian or military should read them (a few acceptable translations indeed exist!).

@kongo: The times of invading other countries either already nuclear armed or allied with nuclear powers are certainly gone by in our century and the last time this kind of aggression has happened in Asia was between 1895 and 1945 when Japan tried successively to impose her imperial rule over the entire continent.

You ask the right question about the sincerity of China's statements about ´peaceful rise´: is China sincere? Well, at least Beijing does not propose military global hegemony and preemptive wars as pivotal elements of her national security strategy like the US obviously and publicly does.

China has shown utmost restraint in her military and strategic behaviour for more than 25 years and comparing this record with the USA's reckless and frequent use of military force against a whole bunch of countries around the globe China deserves certainly at least the benefit of doubt that her rise will not result in the same chaos and carnage the US has caused since 1898!

ho humm, let's see.... Paracel islands.. Mischief reef... should we add Tibet? shhhh! let's not talk about China's transgressions!

Kongo said:

ho humm, let's see.... Paracel islands.. Mischief reef... should we add Tibet? shhhh! let's not talk about China's transgressions!

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Not here to argue who is the bad guy or who is good, but if u want to cite the dispute in the South China Sea, at least keep yourself informed about the latest development. It has become more of a sea of cooperation than that of dispute.



China, Philippines, Vietnam Sign Joint South China Sea Oil Search Accord
2005.03.14

Nov. 2003—Aerial photograph, taken from a Philippine Air Force aircraft shows Chinese built structures on the Mischief Reef in the disputed Spratly Islands. Photo: AFP

MANILA—China, the Philippines, and Vietnam have signed a landmark agreement to conduct a joint survey of possible oil deposits in areas they all claim in the South China Sea. Brunei, Taiwan, and Malaysia, which claim the same areas, didn’t have any immediate reaction.

China National Offshore Oil Corp. (CNOOC), Philippine National Oil Co. (PNOC), and Vietnam Oil and Gas Corp., also known as PetroVietnam, agreed to design seismic work programs over three years that cover an area of about 143,000 square kms (55,000 square miles).

Philippine President Gloria Arroyo hailed the agreement by the three state-run oil companies as a "diplomatic breakthrough for peace and security in the region."
'An historic event'

The agreement stipulates that the oil companies from the three countries will conduct joint research on the potential of oil in the area.

Vietnamese Foreign Ministry spokesman Le Dung

The specific area was not delineated in the agreement, but all three countries have rival claims on the Spratly Islands group in the South China Sea.

"This is a historic event because it is the first, it is the breakthrough in implementing the provisions of the Code of Conduct in the South China Sea" that was signed in 2002 by China and the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), Arroyo said

"The agreement stipulates that the oil companies from the three countries will conduct joint research on the potential of oil in the area," Vietnamese Foreign Ministry spokesman Le Dung said.

Hanoi and Beijing engaged in a brief naval battle over the Spratlys in the 1970s.
Disputes over suspected oil

The oil firms said the tripartite agreement "will not undermine the basic positions held by their respective governments on the South China Sea issue."

They said the accord would "contribute to the transformation of the South China Sea into an area of peace, stability, cooperation, and development in accordance with the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea and the 2002 ASEAN-China declaration on the conduct of parties in the South China Sea."

Most territorial disputes in the area date to the early or mid-1970s, when the discovery of oil and gas fields around Southeast Asia revived sometimes centuries-old spats.

The South China Sea region, where most of the disputes centre, has proved oil reserves of some 7 billion barrels and production of about 2.5 million barrels per day, a 2003 U.S. government study showed.

A U.S. Geological Survey in 1993-94 estimated discovered and undiscovered resources in the offshore basins of the South China Sea at 28 billion barrels, although only a portion of this would be economically recoverable.

I bring your attention to Violet's words...

the last time this kind of aggression has happened in Asia was between 1895 and 1945 when Japan tried successively to impose her imperial rule over the entire continent.

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China has shown utmost restraint in her military and strategic behaviour for more than 25 years

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I was just showing Violet how his memory might be just a tad selective, the same way his reasoning is applied.

Kongo said:

ho humm, let's see.... Paracel islands.. Mischief reef... should we add Tibet? shhhh! let's not talk about China's transgressions!

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Hmm Comparing border dispute to full bown invasion is an effort to obfuscate and confuse history

Border is drawn by agreement between relevant countries. China does not recoqnize border arbitrarily drawn by colonial power such as Mc Mahon Line or Vietnam China border drawn by French

To compare border skirmishes againse full blown invasion violating known and recognized border has no justice whatsoever

China resolve most of their border disputed with the bordering countires and once it is signed China respect it's border

dear Kongo please do not try to open history's numerous boxes of pandora!:coffee:

Of course we could elaborately discuss about how aggressive the Tang (唐朝 618-907) dynasty was in her drive to expand the empire into central asia and during the early reign of the Qing (清朝 1644-1912) China could even be called an ´imperialist´power similarly to Russia at least.

Nevertheless any discussion about Asian history would not be complete without mentioning the disastrous Imjin war (壬辰倭亂 1592-98) Japan brought over Korea. Japan's military dictator Toyotomi Hideyoshi invaded Korea for six years and killed around a million people there and only after Ming China intervened repeatedly with several armies on behalf of the attacked koreans Japan was forced to withdraw form a completely destroyed country.

Nitpicking about the history of each other is pointless and great nations have done good and bad things in their long history (China and Japan look indeed back on several millenia of civilization in contrast to some country considering herself the indispensable nation).

This kind of distortion of history is also often employed by hegemonic powers intent to legitimize their power and delegitimize former and current rivals. Just look at how the US government and US media are portraying the history of Germany, Russia and Japan: the average US citizen knows only about Hitler, Stalin, Nazism, Communism, Holocaust, Gulag, Tojo, Pearl Harbour and he obviously thinks that the history of these great countries consists of continuous crimes against humanity. Correspondingly he knows almost nothing about black spots in the history of the US and infers from this fact that the US is morally superior and has a implicit right (yes: might is right!) to pursue world hegemony. Additionally the US corporate media industry works tirelessly to disseminate this kind of propaganda myths around the globe to convince more and more people about ´true lies´as historical facts.

My hope is that asian people shape their views about history without interference from outside powers only intent to further their narrow interests. China needs more scientific provocative thinking about her own history and that of their neighbours and japanese scholars are playing an important role in this process. Although provocative thinking does not equal provocation and that goes for both!

Violet Oboe said:

Although provocative thinking does not equal provocation and that goes for both!

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Violet, let's get back to the present. You said the missile defence system was provocation for China. Can you please explain how it is provocation for a non-nuclear power like Japan to have the means to defend itself from nuclear attack - because that is what you were implying.

FuManChu said:

Violet, let's get back to the present. You said the missile defence system was provocation for China. Can you please explain how it is provocation for a non-nuclear power like Japan to have the means to defend itself from nuclear attack - because that is what you were implying.

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I think it's quite clear why a missile defence for one country is provocation for another. I mean you can take a look at why the Russians are pissed off about Americans withdrawing from the ABM treaty and such. You've been around these internet forums for a while now, I'm surprised you would ask this kind of question.

FuManChu said:

Violet, let's get back to the present. You said the missile defence system was provocation for China. Can you please explain how it is provocation for a non-nuclear power like Japan to have the means to defend itself from nuclear attack - because that is what you were implying.

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China is the only nuclear weapon state to give an unqualified security assurance to non-nuclear-weapon states: China undertakes not to use or threaten to use nuclear weapons against non-nuclear-weapon states or nuclear-weapon-free zones at any time or under any circumstances, and China has constantly reiterated this policy.

Japan, while always portraying itself as some kind of imaginary “victim” (starting from the cause of WWII), always forgets how much suffering it has caused to other countries. Nuclear weapon or not, the only way that Japan could have felt safer is that it had not killed so many Chinese in the past, and that is not something Japan can easily undo.