Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Radar

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Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

Because of the conflict over the Dokdo islands it is clearly in the interest of South Korea in case of war between Japan and China to support China actively and if necessary to abrogate the SOFA agreement with the US. It will also be in South Korea's interest to declare Japan the aggressor. That is something that China as well as the US will be aware of. These are very good arguments for the US to prevent Japanese aggression.

That's wishful thinking. South Korea would never break up with the US over Japan unless the US aggressively supports Japan directly against South Korean interests, which is not the case with the Diaoyus/Senkakus. The likeliest South Korean behavior is neutrality in a conflict between Japan and China with no meaningful change in its strategic picture.

Ironically, North Korea is the biggest threat to China in case it does something threatening during a Japan-China conflict which results in more support for Japan.
 

LesAdieux

Junior Member
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

it's interesting to see Jeff trying to match japan and china's naval power VLS by VLS, actually in a real naval conflict , IMO there're more important assets than VLS, we can classify them as following:

tier I asset: long range ballistic and cruise missiles;

tier II asset: fight and attack aircrafts;

tier III asset: naval ships and subs.

at the moment, China certainly dominates Japan in the first two classes, while Japan has an edge in the third class. today we don't know how well naval ships will fair without air cover, in the old days, such as in the late stage of the WWII, naval ships without air cover were simply floating targets.
 

ahadicow

Junior Member
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

What I don't understand right now is why a scenerio where Japan fight China alone in a shooting war is worth analyzing?

edit: embolden "alone" , not enough emphsize it seemed
 
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MwRYum

Major
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

What I don't understand right now is why a scenerio where Japan fight China alone in a shooting war is worth analyzing?

That's because China and Japan is on course to another war, and that's the reality of things.
 

ahadicow

Junior Member
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

That's because China and Japan is on course to another war, and that's the reality of things.

and you think Japan would go to war with China on its own?
 

luhai

Banned Idiot
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

What I don't understand right now is why a scenerio where Japan fight China alone in a shooting war is worth analyzing?

edit: embolden "alone" , not enough emphsize it seemed


If you want to drag the US into it, then the outcome is very predictable, thus not really worth analyzing.

[video=youtube;7VG2aJyIFrA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VG2aJyIFrA[/video]
 

ahadicow

Junior Member
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

If you want to drag the US into it, then the outcome is very predictable, thus not really worth analyzing.

[video=youtube;7VG2aJyIFrA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VG2aJyIFrA[/video]

It's not that I want to "drag" the US into it, the US had placed itself on the center of this conflict from the beginning, by decribing Japan as an "ally", by having a major military base inside Japan, by conducting excercises with Japan regularly, by the so-called US-Japan Defence Treaty, by believing Japan's unilateral accusation that its destroyer had been locked on by Chinese, and ultmately, by handing Japan the adminstrative power over DYT which created this conflict at the first place.

At which stage is US not involved?

US had created the situation we had known today. US can resolve the issue at any time, simply by sticking to the word of the treaty that its own president had signed. It does not do so should tell you something by now.
 

MwRYum

Major
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

and you think Japan would go to war with China on its own?

With all those screwing at China, perpetrated by Japan and other US allies neighbouring China, will eventually leave Beijing no other options but to go to war, in order to sedate the nationalistic masses and to preserve CPC's right of existence...for how much longer, let me ask you, can Beijing keep behaving as a weakling like the Qing Dynasty and KMT did, and the nationalistic masses can keep their anger from flare out at the ruling CPC?

In the end, Beijing can either consign to a slow death by keep letting the likes of Japan, Vietnam and Philippines pissing at China, show the world what a lame arse and a whore the Beijing leadership is to foreign aggression; or go to war and show the world there's a deadly price to pay for screwing at China, thus sedate the domestic masses...though that could equally backfire of course, lose yet another war in modern Chinese history and...well, you know what will happen.

So, Beijing is really running out of options...US backs Abe, China stands alone.
 

lostsoul

Junior Member
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

So, Beijing is really running out of options...US backs Abe, China stands alone.

In one respect the constraining of China mirrors that of the USA constraining Japan in the 1930's and we all know what that lead to.

It would be a "perfect" solution on America's debt problem. They could say China has defaulted on it's UST bills due to military action at the stroke of the POTUS's pen. Then its anyone's guess on the outcome.

On the other hand the USA is not even backing it's closest ally (The UK) over the Falkland islands. Just the other day John Kerry refused to accept any result of the Falkland islander's to vote on sovereignty. "Special relationship" my a$$. We Brits bend over for Uncle Sam on command. So depending on how much America thinks it will lose or gain will be the factor if it backs Japan militarily in any conflict regardless of any signed treaty between the two.
 

Mr T

Senior Member
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

It would be a "perfect" solution on America's debt problem. They could say China has defaulted on it's UST bills due to military action at the stroke of the POTUS's pen.

Given that China only holds 7.5% of America's debt, I don't see how a war with China would solve the issue on any level.

On the other hand the USA is not even backing it's closest ally (The UK) over the Falkland islands.... So depending on how much America thinks it will lose or gain will be the factor if it backs Japan militarily in any conflict regardless of any signed treaty between the two.

The Falklands don't face any credible military threat from Argentina, so there's little need for American support, even if Obama's "have your cake and eat it" position is tiresome.

Whereas there is a significant chance of a military conflict between China and Japan over the islands. If the US didn't back Japan if fighting broke out, all its military agreements with countries around the world would be exposed to be worthless. At a stroke the US' military position in the world would be severely damaged because no one would bother helping it.

and the nationalistic masses can keep their anger from flare out at the ruling CPC?

Then maybe the CCP shouldn't have fostered nationalism in Chinese schools so much? But you can't pander to the angry masses all the time, otherwise the world would constantly be at war until there was just a few people left alive, living like animals.

In the end, Beijing can either consign to a slow death by keep letting the likes of Japan, Vietnam and Philippines pissing at China, show the world what a lame arse and a whore the Beijing leadership is to foreign aggression

China has effectively put its reputation on the line by getting angry over the Senkaku Islands in the last year and creating a mini-crisis. Beforehand, I can promise you hardly anyone outside of China and Japan knew about this issue. Now that China's jumping up and down and screaming, people are talking about it. So China has drawn attention to an issue and limited its own options, when previously it had the option of just making a diplomatic protest.

or go to war and show the world there's a deadly price to pay for screwing at China

So the rest of the world will end up fearing, rather than respecting, China. Is that what you really want? Countries that fear others will only do what you want while they have to. As soon as they don't have to, they won't give you time of day - or quite possibly return the favour by hitting you when you're down. Are Norway or Sweden powerful countries? No. But they're respected and have happy, affluent populations. Also if there was some catastrophic disaster there, all their neighbours would help without question. Is China never going to need help from others in the future when it's down on its luck?
 
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